Sep07
If You Are Short, Fat, Older or An Asian Man, You Must Read This. But Especially If You’re Short.
<< Previous Pages: 1 2
Life – and people – can be incredibly unfair. We talked about this just the other day. People want what they want. They’re attracted to what they’re attracted to. And no amount of complaining is going to change it.
Oh, and I am one helluva dating coach. 60 unsolicited contacts in three days? Six replies from six emails sent? Come on. That’s pretty damn good!
Okay, I’m kidding about the last part, but only because I’m so serious about the rest of this. Really, it kills me.
Believe me, Tom is no “woe-is-me” kind of guy. He’s just been confronted with a very ugly reality that has shaken his confidence in people. And even though we had good initial results, the fact remains, empirically: women don’t want short men.
And although you can feel free to substitute “older women”, “older men”, “heavier women”, or “Asian men”, I honestly feel that nobody gets a rawer deal than short guys.
Honestly, ladies…You can get your own dishes from the top shelf. You don’t really need to feel "protected" from the dangers of suburbia. And why in God’s name is it important to stand on your tiptoes to kiss a guy?
So how about it, women? Is there any legitimate reason not to go out with this amazing, amazing man?
Talk to me. I want to hear the truth.
Pages: 1 2 << previous
Filed Under Online Dating Tips & Advice, Uncategorized
Read More...
- Why Reality Sucks, Fantasy Rules, and My Advice May Make You Upset
- Best of Evan Marc Katz’s Advice From a Single Dating Expert
- I’m a Man Who Doesn’t Want to Have Kids. Who Is Left To Date?
- How Do You Know If He’s Ready for Marriage BEFORE You Get Involved?
- How Do You Convince a Poor Guy That You Really Do Like Him?
lady anonymous Sep 7th 2007 at 09:26 am 1
Honestly? It’s because I like to feel small next to a guy. I’ve been insecure about my weight my whole life. A tall, broad man does wonders for making me feel dainty next to him.
Sam Sep 7th 2007 at 09:32 am 2
I agree that short men have it very, very hard. The discrimination short men face is more unfair than the discrimination overweight women face since no one has any control over his/her height and being short, unlike being overweight, being short does not mean you are physically incapable of things.
One question I have is why women find it so easy to make a guy feel self-conscious about his height. I’m 5′8” and several women have admitted - before our date = they have reservations about my height, asking me questions like “are you really 5′8”?” I would NEVER make a woman feel bad because of her height or weight, so I do not understand why many women do not give shorter-than-average men the same consideration.
Jaya Sep 7th 2007 at 09:39 am 3
I’m 5′6.5″ and average weight. Like lady anonymous said, a taller man’s body makes me feel more feminine by comparison.
Conversely, when a man is short enough to nestle into my chest, it feels oddly like having a child in my arms. My ex was about 5′9″ and it was hard to shake that feeling of being a mommy when he’d cuddle into me.
The unspoken thing that vexes me sometimes is how women who are much shorter than me, say 5′ - 5′3″ will only date men who are +6′. What’s up with that? Jeez ladies– Leave some of the really tall guys for us taller women. Why won’t you date the guys who are still a good 5″ taller than you?
timotea Sep 7th 2007 at 09:40 am 4
Most short guys I know have wicked Napoleon complexes. It may be subconscious or not, but they tend to overcompensate by being overbearing, sanctimonious know-it-alls who are often bitter about women. I feel for them just like I would for an obese woman, but pushiness in a short man tells me he hasn’t gotten over his height and is a major turnoff.
Jessica Sep 7th 2007 at 09:45 am 5
My friend “T” likes short guys — because she’s 5 foot 5, 108 pounds, with basically no curves at all and has always been super skinny. She likes short guys because they aren’t twice her size.
Along the same lines, most women may not be into short guys because it makes them feel big and heavy. There’s such a strong emphasis on women being small — mostly thin, but also petite — so maybe if it was okay for women to be any other size it would be okay for men too. If a guy is going to outweigh me (I’m 5 foot 6, mid 140s) yet not be fat, he’s probably going to be a few inches taller than I am.
Come to think of it, I know a woman who is 5 foot 9 and has dated men shorter than I am. In that situation, both parties have to have TONS of self confidence and not really give a damn about how other people are perceiving them. Because he kinda looks short and she kinda looks like a giant.
a&v Sep 7th 2007 at 11:11 am 6
In line with the others, I’d have to say that as a tall woman (I’m 5′11″) I enjoy being shorter (and smaller) than my guy. However, most of my boyfriends have been an inch or two shorter than me. One of the things I look for in a man is confidence, and even if he’s 5′7″ and loves himself as he is (without any cockiness or napolean complexes) sure, I’d go out with him. (Though it would help if he were a stocky fellow, in that case.) Unfortunately for men like Tom, 5′3″ might be too extreme for me (and 5′11″ for him–especially since I love wearing heels). In the dating world I am “discriminated against” plenty for my height but I have no problem with it. Preferences are preferences, fair or not, and if a man can’t get past my statuesque externals, I don’t want him anyway. Here’s to all of us still looking and best of luck to Tom!
Jura Sep 7th 2007 at 11:13 am 7
I was in a relationship with a shorter (than me) man. It was great! We were both normal weight, probably both with some “baby fat”. The feeling of being a woman next to a man never left me for a second while with him. On the contrary, I think he despised my high heels (although he never commented on that) - and I like high heels, so I never asked if he feels bad about them (well if it was my wedding day I’d probably go on flats and give some heels to him!).
Why? I am European. In Europe. There is something wrong with the U.S. in this regards, don’t know what. Like shame of nudity in changing rooms - that’s quasi impossible to understand on this side of the pool.
LAnie Sep 7th 2007 at 11:25 am 8
SO, there are a number of reasons that women are not as attracted to shorter men: Since I’m not so sure the other ladies have the guts to say it:
there’s something disturbing about going out with a guy who is eye level with my chest. It’s that whole Oedipus complex issue. We know you guys like breasts, so to have a guy who has even easier access to looking at them ALL the time is creepy. Then there’s the issue of intimacy. I enjoy being face to face with a lover and if he’s that much shorter, it’s a bit of a mood killer having his face buried in the fun bags constantly. And that’s comin’ from a girl who enjoys a little attention in that area.
Then there’s the issue of fashion: Most of us love the way our Choos or Manolos make out legs look long and toned, even if we can’t walk after going out on a date with them! Incidentally, it also gives us a little more height, thus creating the need for a taller guy if the premise previously mentioned holds true for most of us women.
SO it’s not that dating men who are shorter that is the problem. It’s dating men that are much shorter that is the hurdle. So, to the short guys out there: There are plenty of short girls. Stick within 2 inches of your height and you should be just fine.
As a side note: I’m 5’9. I am currently dating a man who is 5’8. I specifically asked him if he cared about my love for heels and if he did, he’d have to get over it! There are those of us out there who don’t care but we’re a small portion of the population. Oh, and prior to 5’8 guy my last boyfriend was 6’9. So the same difficulty can be said for a guy who is unusually tall. Your dating pool is just going to be smaller.
AS for the other items (fat, bald Asian…) IF you’re fat;start working out. It’s only fair that you are seeking out someone with the same level of fitness as you. If I’m taking care of my body, I would expect the same in a partner.
If you’re bald: shave it all off. Don’t fight it. Embrace the baldness. It’s sexy. And it’s not that big a stigma anymore. and for god sakes, SKIP the hair implants. They look awful.
If you’re Asian: this is NOT a disadvantage. You are the largest population in the world (all nationalities combined!). There are plenty of women for you to date…if you prefer Asian women. If you prefer white women, then you’re dating pool is smaller. Only a certain percentage (I don’t claim to know what it is) of white women will consider dating outside their race so again, the same senitment rings true: your dating pool is just going to be smaller.
Cam Sep 7th 2007 at 05:01 pm 9
I’m 5′9.5″ (though people say I look taller) with an atheletic build. I dated a 6′ guy who looked scared of me when I wore heels, I did try wear flats around him but that felt unfair.
I recently dated a guy who claimed he was 6′6″ but I’m almost certain he was more like 6′9″ and that felt awkward. I’m used to being one of the tallest people in the room and it just felt odd being dwarfed by a guy. Not being able to sneak a kiss without a running jump - not my idea of fun.
The shortest guy I’ve dated was 5′8″. There is something about a guy gazing down at you (in my case, as long as it’s not from too far up!) that would feels great, it would take a lot of getting used to if the guy was significantly shorter and I had to be the one looking down. I don’t know if I could do it…
I’m also an avid ballroom/social dancer so the ability to spin me without smacking my head is a huge plus, that usually requires a guy to be about eye level or taller. Maybe it’s a pipe dream and one of the reasons why I’m alone on a Friday night but I’d like to find a guy with a sense of rhythm who “fits” me on the dance floor. I think the rhythm requirement eliminates more people than the height one
Jaya, I hear you on the petite women that are only after 6′+ men. It has to go both ways though - I have a 5′10″ female friend who had what seemed like an amazing connection with a 6′5″ guy, however he couldn’t get past the fact that she was over 5′6″ (the max height his profile stated). Some (or many?) men enjoy that huge size differential.
Cam Sep 7th 2007 at 05:10 pm 10
Just for the record, I didn’t break up with the 6′9″ guy because of his height (he dumped me for non-size related incompatibility issues).
Sally Sep 8th 2007 at 07:53 am 11
Count me in with the ladies who don’t want to weigh more than the guy I’m dating. But, that being said, I have dated men shorter than me, and it really doesn’t bother me. What counts in the long run is how they treated me… and that was always wonderful. I am with a guy now who is not much taller than me, and close in height does give a wonderful “fit” during intimate times!
BeenThruTheWars Sep 8th 2007 at 08:35 am 12
My first husband was 5′6″ and 130 pounds soaking wet (runner with a small frame). I’m 5′5″ and muscular (freakishly strong for a woman when working out regularly) and also overweight; I always felt like a horse next to him, and when I did his laundry, folding his tiny T shirts and underpants… it was like folding a child’s clothing. Just really killed any sexual desire on my part, which was minimal to begin with. He was a great guy in a lot of other ways, which is why I married him, but that piece was always missing for me.
As for the Napoleonic complex thing: he was very even tempered and rational until he got behind the wheel of a car — can you say road rage? Apparently having control of several tons o’ steel with which to be aggressive is the great equalizer. It got to the point where I didn’t want to be in a car when he was driving. So when I divorced him after 10+ years (mainly because of the missing sex/affection/passion piece) I vowed, no more guys who were self-conscious about their stature, whatever it was.
My next relationship was with a guy who was 5′9″ and told people he was 5′10″; so he was a little insecure about it obviously, but he was the perfect height/size for me. My next relationship after that was with a guy who was 6′4″; then with one who was 6′6″ — both way too tall for me. I could only kiss them properly if I was standing on the first step of a staircase. I got a stiff neck from craning my head up all the time to look at them. My new husband is 6′2″ which is still a smidge too tall for my taste, but he’s a keeper in every other way.
He sometimes teases me for being unable to reach something because I’m short and I say, “Listen, buster… the average American woman is 5′4″ tall. I’m 5′5″ tall, which makes me slightly above average in height. The average American man, on the other hand, is 5′10″ tall. You, my friend, are the pituitary freak around here, not me.” We always get a chuckle out of that. It’s a turn on for him when I wear heels, which I dislike, but I occasionally indulge him. We do feel better matched, walking together, when I have 3″ heels on, but it’s a pretty minor note in the grand scheme of things.
I will say this: I once stood in an airport security line in L.A. and a guy struck up a conversation with me… man, was the chemistry UNBELIEVABLE. He was totally hot looking, blond, off to Hawaii on a diving trip. We flirted for the duration then went our separate ways. That was the day I realized, OHH, yeah… I could totally date a guy his height. Which was? Well, he came up to my chin and I’m 5′5″, so… after that, I never put a height restriction on my dating but wound up with 6′2″ anyway. Go figure. I also said I would NEVER marry a smoker… and I did. So for me, it kinda comes down to, is a guy’s height REALLY a deal breaker? Also, if an Asian man had asked me out, or a black or Latino man for that matter, if I liked him and he was cute and I thought there was a chance we might be compatible, I totally would have gone out with him — but none ever did ask me out. I dated an obese guy for a while but there was just no chemistry there for me and I broke it off.
It’s partly “what the universe sends you,” sorry if that sounds too New Agey.
Paul Sep 8th 2007 at 09:40 am 13
You gals are terrible ! Good night, what does it matter if the guy is a little shorter? Is he a good man? Can he provide? Does he make you feel safe amd protected? Is he romantic and can he make you feel special? Can he make you laugh ? Aren’t these attributes a a little more important than “I want to feel petite next to him” or “I don’t want to feel like someone is starring at my breasts”. I can’t believe how shallow you all are being. Ya, you’ll get tall guys allright, but that may be all. Whatever happened to chemistry and compatibility? My advice would be, if you can, go back and talk to your Mothers, I have a feeling they may be able to shad a little light on your confusion, because you have definatly lost sight of what’s really important. Best of luck…your gonna need it! And I’m 5′9″ by the way.
Erika Sep 8th 2007 at 09:51 am 14
I’ve dated all kinds: short, bald, and Asian. I’m 5′4 and very petite so I always feel that the men are bigger than me. Personally, I don’t like to date men taller than 5′10, otherwise I have to stand on my toes to kiss them and my neck gets sore.
That being said, the shortest man I dated was 5′6. Right now I’m in love with a bald man who hovers around 5′10.
Zann Sep 8th 2007 at 11:23 am 15
I’d like to weigh in on this. I am barely 5′0″, 108 lbs, so every man I’ve ever been with has been taller than me…usually a lot taller. Personally, I LIKE short men, so send them my way. I find them usually to be friskier, more sensual, and generally less arrogant than the tall, head-in-the-clouds dude. Maybe because they’ve had their share of being diss’d, I find short men to be more humble, appreciative & giving. Many women were schooled in the “tall, dark & handsome” times, but the reality is, it’s foolish to limit your pool to a certain height in a man, mainly because you’re shooting yourself in the foot — why restrict yourself to something that’s got absolutely nuthin’ to do with what kind of man he is, his integrity, his level of passion or complexity, his sexual prowess. But overall, I think it’s still all really about attitude. And based on the statitics proven here, is it really any big surprise that men develop a Napoleanic attitude? Since I’ve always been short, I’m used to having most people taller than me. But when I’m engaging with a person who is about my height — whether male or female — where we’re at an even eye-level, the power dynamic changes dramatically. I feel more secure, confident, and relaxed. I do understand what taller women are talking about, not wanting to feel like they are dwarfing their man, but I also know what the flip side of that is. I don’t like the fact that I am always “looking up” at the guy, like he’s some godly father figure and I’m the helpless, submissive, dependent lil’ woman. And I’d be the first to admit that I carry around a bit of the short-woman attitude, which projects: don’t make presumptions about me — I am no pushover, no petite flower. I do wonder why a taller man would be attracted to me, and truthfully, it makes me suspicious when there’s a huge height difference. (You know, “Why don’t you pick on someone your own size?”) When my friends ask about some tall guy who has asked me out, I always ask, “What am I supposed to do with all of that?” I mean, I’m an energetic gal, but that’s a lot of ground to cover…so much scrambling around! If there’s a shorter man in the room and he’s single, you can bet his making his way over to me, and I don’t think it’s got much to do with my looks, body, or anything other than that it’s just such a relief to look a female adult in the eye. So, I say, Short People of the World — Unite! Lift yourself up to your full height proudly. And just send all those spry, fun-loving short guys my way, (including Tony) and I’ll gladly leave the Big Boys for women who want someone more their eye level. But for those women who “need” to feel smaller, daintier, less powerful than their men, I say leave that to the fantasy of the bedroom and use your imagination. And at the risk of waving my feminist flag too vigorously and obnoxiously, remember that a lot of us fought long & hard to NOT be powerless and to not let men dominate us, and to make sure we get our fair share. That applies to our intimate lives, as well, and with whom we romance. (And please don’t say, “Sure, easy for you to say, you’re a small woman,” because it’s not easy for any woman, period.) Yes, humans are visual creatures, and yes, we like what we like, but usually that’s because it’s what we’re familiar with, & sometimes we need to challenge what we think are “natural attractions.” I’m with the European woman — branch out and try something different and you may be surprised. I know several couples where the woman is taller than her man & is likely of equal weight or maybe even heavier. They seem unbothered by this, displaying affection openly and publicly, whether she’s reaching down a little bit to squeeze his butt or he’s reaching up a little to squeeze hers. If you care about each other, you make it work. Thanks for your insights & may you all find your mate, big or small, short or tall.
Shari Sep 8th 2007 at 01:32 pm 16
The only reason not to date him for me? He lives in PA and I’m not close to that state so it might be hard to see each other. Aside from that, it doesn’t matter to me if the guy is shorter. I’m 5′7″ and height has never been, nor will it be, a dealbreaker.
The dating world, but most especially the online dating world, has a lot of shallow people who look to what the outside has to offer way before they’re concerned if the inside is as beautiful. Give me a man beautiful on the inside and he could be Quasi Modo, wouldn’t affect me in the least. I’ve dated enough great looking, hard bodied, duds to know what’s important.
tom pandolfo Sep 9th 2007 at 08:53 am 17
Well, I’m Tom Pandolfo and it’s hard for me not to read this and remain silent (understanding full well that silence cannot be misquoted). In any event, while we all have our own preferences, I was especially impressed by what “Zann” had to comment upon, first because it is consistent with my own beliefs (who can argue with someone whose disposition and atttitude is commensurate with their own? LOL) and secondly due to her maturity about the whole thing, particularly as regards her comment concerning the fight women have had to not be “dominated” by men, which is both laudable and refreshing because it is obvious her own identity is measured not by her own (petite) “stature,” but by the content of her soul and her appreciation for freedom from what I may call the conventional mind set. I find that VERY SEXY. Okay, so I am biased, too, but I have found amongst my other shorter male friends and myself, too, that we may better appreciate the strides women have made towards greater freedom and respect because we have had to confront similar demons in terms of gaining respect that is based on the content and character of one’s soul as opposed to some external attribute that has no relationship to what one brings to any human transaction, be it a professional or emotionally intimate relationship.
Like most of my shorter male friends, we have hordes of female friends, I suggest because we treat them as equals as opposed to submissive or dainty subjects in need of dominance. Dominance is fun in the bedroom, for sure, but quite honestly, while I like being dominant in bed, I also like a woman strong and aggressive enough to take control, too, for it expands, say, the repertriore, and decreases sexual boredom. I’ve always preferred partners that like to share in bed, it lends itself to better (and mind blowing) sex. It’s tough to have stature outside the bedroom (or in relationships) when one willingly chooses to be the submissive party in any relationship. That’s weakness, not strength, and who wants a weak partner?
Doing things society (or peers) may not deem normal requires a lot of self confidence (extremely appealing in a woman!) and I believe also increases the amount of respect a man has for her, since, ultimately, her own inner beauty (as opposed to the external) places her on a level equal to her partner. When mates are equal there is greater opportunity for connection, I posit, and lessens the power conflict sometimes inherent in male-female relationships. A woman who suggests her feminimity is measured by being “dainty” sells herself, well, short (pun intended
and may never realize the esteem that comes from being truly free. For reasons unbeknownst to me, having spent some recent time in Europe, and as alluded to by “Jura,” European women seem to “get it” more (generally) than American women do. They seem INTO MEN while their American counterparts place such substantial restrictions on what a man is, some, not all, of which is based on self imposed height stereotypes. European women, accordingly, seem to have more male options. The more options one has (the real issue for short guys like myself given the way we seem to be limited by a reasonable portion of women), the greater the pool of connections, and the less needy and more desirable one becomes. I suggest American men do the same as their female countertops, implying there are strong cultural, as opposed to biological, elements at work. The biological argument, moreover, seems to suggest that it cannot be controlled, but the ability to overcome what may be deemed innate biological dispositions is what separates us from the animals, is it not?
I have had female friends state it was refreshing to get outside of the box and try something different (dating a short guy) because it made them more free (and, accordingly, more powerful), and understand feminimity is not a concept based on weakness or daintiness, but ultimately, on a form of strength that may not be physical, but is at the very minimum emotional and intellectual. Women with this type of strength are VERY SEXY. And if some of the men can’t handle this, then why date such a Neanterthal? The posture that feminimity is based on “weakness” is a concept that sells women short and limits not only their possibility for greater emotional connection, but professional progress as well. Women that figure that out, I suggest, lead much happier and fuller lives because they are able to increase the number of human connections they have (and that includes taller people as well). And to be self serving, for a moment, they have also found that it all lines up the same horizontally and they may end up with a real giant if they spend a few hours with a shorter guy (let your minds wander). As someone who coaches athletics, I usually find the shorter guys better athletes in terms of balance and rythm and those attributes can lend themselves to sexual prowess. I very rarely see good tall male dancers.
The real question, ultimately, is not how hard short guys have it in the dating (particularly online) world, but the power and control women can have over their own lives (and men) by being free from culturally imposed dating standards that limit, not the short guys’ dating prospects, but the ladies true strength. This is not a plea to have women date short guys, but a statement that it doesn’t make a difference unless you place your own limitation on your life. People whose outlooks are so limited (be they tall or short) are not as sexy and appealing as those who have freed themselves from conventional boundaries. My grandmother always admonishes us that you limit yourself most when you limit others. It’s that type of strong character that makes her such a strong, special and respected lady. She gets it.
And by the way, I like ladies in high heels, be they 4′11 or 5′11, they are all sexy to me, because I like women, not just a small portion of them. But I have to say I was shocked by how significant a difference it was being “5′10″ for 3 days. It was a sad commentary on the state of what is important for a portion of the female dating population out there, and no surprise, accordingly, women are still sold short by many men in many aspects of life.
Interesting article, Evan, and some cool and honest replies.
Tom
By the way, I am a strong, confident and successful guy, but for anyone to suggest because of such strength I am (or any short guy) “Napoleanic” is in need of some therapy. That’s a stereotype that doesn’t sell the short person short, but sells the believer in that concept short. A woman who is successful is not some power hungry b…ch, but should be lauded for overcoming what are still strong (albeit thankfully decreasing) cultural biases.
Jessica Sep 9th 2007 at 10:20 am 18
In response to Paul, this is commenter’s opinion. It is no more descriminating then the men who prefer shorter thinner women, because they feel big and strong!! They also generally want someone that they can show off.
When it comes to dating, in the US, there are a lot of hang ups. Men and Women are gulity of stereotypes and submitting to cultural norms.
I’m tall and not thin. I like wearing heels, and can be an easy 6 foot tall when I have a pair on. I also like to walk aroung barefoot and consider myself a normal 5′9″. I’m not sayin’ I need a Paul Bunyan (sp??) but, I want someone that I don’t dwarf. Mainly because I feel just as awkward about my height.
Yes, I would put the security and safety above looks, but you have to get to the point where you can have that. A lot of shorter men lack self confidence, or have an over abundance. But the same goes for women. If we can’t get over those hang ups, then it can be hard to even get to where you can start to feel safe, secure, and protected.
I hope Tom finds a great relationship. He sounds like a great guy, but even if you read his profile, he has similar hang ups. As someone who isn’t overly active, I read his profile and thought, he seems like a really great guy. But, then, he has a section on being physically fit, and well I would think, he won’t even look at me, so why bother. If we are asking everyone to be open minded to shorter men, who have a few extra pounds, and come from Korea, then we ourselves should be open to a potential match that is maybe not exactly what we are looking for.
Evan you are doing great things here, keep up the good work. These are just thoughts from someone who has had it rough in the dating world.
Jared Meyer Sep 9th 2007 at 02:00 pm 19
“Perceptions, Preferences, and Priorities”
For the record, I’m 29 years of age, caucasian, and 6′0 (without shoes), and have a very athletic build. Positive physical features aside, I have been single most of my life. Why? I value being creative and working 7 days each week though conceptually I am sincerely interested in meeting someone with whom to spend the rest of my life.
I’m sensing that many Americans live in fear with regard to their romantic lives. I’ve learned recently that many times, two people decide to commit to each other due to two fundamental reasons: the timing was great, the opportunity stellar, and hopefully because of authentic, powerful feelings.
Personally, for years, I have felt that I won’t stop searching until I meet someone who fits my very specific requirements. I have not lived in fear while thinking, “What if I don’t meet her? What if I’m too picky?” It’s an abundant world. She is out there. Despite my specific preferences, I know that no matter what she looks like, what she does with her time and heart, and what she doesn’t do that if I know we’re truly right for each other long-term, I will make an effort to spend my life with her.
Cognitive distortions and irrational beliefs make us angry, anxious, or depressed. Please consider understanding, accepting, and forgiving others for having very specific preferences. We are always changing. He who seeks a women with X, Y, and Z today may desire one with A, B, and C tomorrow. Relax and ride the wave. Think good thoughts and think big. Well, you know what I mean.
Sam Sep 9th 2007 at 02:40 pm 20
Is it so superficial to want someone who is in shape? Let’s say you’re really active with things like tennis, skiing, biking, whatever — you have the right to want someone who can enjoy those activities with you.
Some girls I’ve gone out with have seen a five mile, no elevation hike as a major physical challenge.
Miss Julie Sep 9th 2007 at 02:51 pm 21
My only complaint with short men is when they lie about it. I’m 5′7″ and, like some of the other posters, love high heels. So I like to know, for real, whether you are my height, taller, shorter, whatever. I’ve dated guys that were significantly taller (6′4″) and significantly shorter (5′3″), but when your profile says that you are 5′7″, then I expect you to actually BE 5′7″.
I suppose this goes for everything in online dating - I don’t appreciate it when guys lie about their single status or their age, either.
iBecca Sep 9th 2007 at 07:08 pm 22
Personally, I think you can rationalize it all you want by analyzing why it amounts wo social weakness for a woman to prefer taller, broader men. I even understand the arguments. But the fact remains that I automatically respond to a taller man. I’m just physically more attracted to that. You like what you like.
To suggest that women who prefer shorter men are somehow more enlightened or that those who prefer taller men are somehow deficient in one way or another is ludicrous. There’s very little thinking going on at all where attraction is concerned.
Marc Sep 10th 2007 at 06:28 am 23
I think this sort of thing hearkens back to the days of the cavemen where the cavewomen needed the big, tall man to hunt, gather and provide. It’s been encoded into their DNA ever since. While guys like a pretty face and a nice body, women feel the need to be protected and assured that everything’s gonna be okay. Shortness is seen as weak and perhaps childlike, as one of the commenters above noted….and a short, weak guy won’t be able to make a woman feel safe and secure.
I would be curious to see what would happen if you changed his profession to a doctor, mentioned how successful his practice was, and left his height at 5′3. You might find similar results. Nothing says “I’m a great hunter and gatherer” than a successful medical practice.
Adrienne Sep 10th 2007 at 08:19 am 24
Truthfully, I’ve always felt like shorter men have a raw deal. I am only 5′2″, but I refuse to date any man shorter than 5′9″. It doesn’t have anything to do with feeling protected or wanting to be on my tiptoes to kiss him, but simply the fact that I don’t want my children, especially my sons, to be short and have to suffer the same stigma. Very sad for me to say as I am a short woman, but I have it a lot easier than short men when it comes to finding a date; and since you can’t control who you fall in love with, I figure it’s better for me to not even date a short man.
Ken Sep 10th 2007 at 08:19 am 25
I’m not sure why you felt it necessary to lump an entire race of men into the same qualitative categories as “Fat”, “Older”, or “Short”? Please explain?
Evan Marc Katz Sep 10th 2007 at 08:49 am 26
Great comments, everybody. But to answer Ken here… I’M not lumping an entire race of men into those who are discriminated against. Women are. If you clicked on the link, you’d see that according to a Columbia University study, Asian men have a 65% lower response rate from white women.
And to address Marc, NOTHING would change if Tom were a 5′3″ doctor. Click on the link to read about the ABC “20/20″ story where the short guys were millionaire concert pianist cancer researchers and the tall guys were felons…and the women still preferred tall guys…
Zann Sep 10th 2007 at 11:14 am 27
Okay, in response to the DNA/caveman/hunter-gatherer rationality — Lordy, can we just put that one to rest. Sure, I’m certain that there is truth to our DNA legacy, but so what? It’s similar to the theory that we are, by nature, a “warring” species. Look! It’s right there is our DNA. So, let’s all just throw up our hands and refuse to evolve beyond the warring, caveman-cavewoman mentality. Centuries of war, sexism, racism, ethnic cleansing, poverty, soil erosion & famine — who’d want to give that up? And I’m sure I’ll be sorry I asked…but women, when was the last time you felt safe, protected, and provided for on any continual basis by a man? And I mean “continual” as in an on-going basis….meaning more than, say, 3 months. Sure, I’ve had men promise me all kinds of things: care, affection, even masculine protection — whether I asked for it or not…but in the long run (or not so long), they were WAY more concerned with looking after their own asses and asking what I could do for them than they were about whether or not they were meeting my needs for security, comfort and compassion. And I’m not even talking about financial security, I’m just talking about reciprocal empathy, concern, and maybe even a little self-sacrifice now & then, heaven forbid. Now, it could be I’ve simply got real, real bad luck — or maybe I’m just a Big-Fat-Loser-&-someone-please-just-put-me-outta-my-misery. But I just don’t see a lot of this protective He-mann stuff everyone’s writing about. Where are these guys, anyway? Must be out on a mammoth-hunt I guess. Meanwhile, I think I’ll go back to digging my tubers out of the ground and gathering my twigs and berries, but I also think I’ll hold onto my day job, thanks very much.
James Sep 10th 2007 at 01:25 pm 28
I don’t understand why white women doesn’t date Asian man? what about African, and Hispanic men?
sheseizereason Sep 10th 2007 at 03:49 pm 29
I have a great deal of respect for Evan’s mind, and Tom Pandolfo seems like a truly stand-up citizen.
However, I’m a little confused.
Wasn’t the 9/5 blog post immediately preceding this one all about how life is unfair? I’m not clear on why the dissection of women’s statistically-backed preference for taller men would follow so quickly on the heels of a post that essentially addresses issues such as these.
The best explanation I could come up with is that: 1) Evan’s 9/5 post bore a difficult, hard-to-swallow message, 2) Evan’s readers nevertheless continued to reject the categorical fact that life is unfair and so… 3) Evan challenged his naysayers in this post by putting them in the position to invoke his own arguments to defend their preference for taller men.
Evan is no dummy.
That aside, I have a few comments about this specific post independent of the previous one. Namely, that Evan asked his readers for their “honest” feedback to the topic. So I’m pretty certain that the commenters who admitted their desires to feel dainty, hug a larger body, meet their partners’ gaze at eye level and avoid dealings with a Napoleonic man are fully aware of the irrationality behind that view. And yet they admitted their feelings because Evan asked and, well, we all know life is unjust. These are HONEST women, not ones in need of therapy, as suggested.
Furthermore, I noticed in his profile that Tom refuses to go out with a heavier woman. And I couldn’t resist the temptation to picture if this post were about a big-hearted fat woman instead of a short man. In my imaginings, the large woman submits a lengthy response to reader comments containing an exhaustive academic breakdown justifying why men shouldn’t remove fat ladies from their dating options. She appeals to their vanity by extolling the “sexiness” of the enlightened attitudes of men who like their women big and beautiful. She asks “Why would anyone want to date a woman who merely conforms to media-hyped/society-enforced notions of what is attractive?”
Do you think Tom himself would be convinced by this woman’s arguments? Enough to actually open up his dating criteria to include fat women? And how different is Tom’s response from the fictional one I described?
At the end of the day, I believe Tom makes compelling arguments that nonetheless sadly fail to persuade the majority of women in online dating land. Why? Because this is attraction we’re talking about here. We’re talking about monkeying with human involuntary responses to other human beings. And if given the choice between a) pursuing what one gravitates towards without thinking about it or b) re-wiring one’s responses to be aligned with the “well-reasoned” position, we are always going to choose Option A. I say so because it’s infinitely easier to do what’s natural, especially if what’s natural doesn’t actively do harm to anyone else and it’s been working fine for them anyway. (Try using logic to convince a man to stop reading Maxim, FHM or Stuff if you don’t believe me.)
As a side note: maybe Tom’s arguments are useful if you’re a woman who’s been limiting herself to taller men and you just can’t seem to find “Mr. Right” among your list of choices. Maybe she should then be persuaded to loosen her criteria. But then again, the converse argument applies to Tom, where perhaps he should consider permitting heavier women who have no issue with shorter men into his dating pool, rather than spend the energy trying to fight an uphill battle against women’s prevailing attitudes.
Tom, I think you’re really brave to put yourself out there and to let Evan put your misfortunes on full display in his blog. I wish you the best of luck, and sincerely believe the right woman’s out there for you. From my perspective, you just happened to have found out the “Match” system of searchable criteria and high-volume dating tends to work against men of your stature. Don’t let your experiences say too much to you about women or your actual prospects.
Cam Sep 11th 2007 at 04:24 pm 30
sheseizereason, I was thinking the exact same thing - this doesn’t jive with previous personal accountability posts. Hopefully someone who has no problem dating short men contacts Tom (maybe that was the aim of the whole thing - to get Tom a lot of exposure) but I doubt any rewiring of what people find attractive is going to happen by being berated for being honest. We can’t be attracted to everyone, life is unfair, right? Change your expectations and behavior, right?
I can see how this would be a hard thread to read if you are short, I definitely don’t want a thread where people state why they wouldn’t be attracted to me. It wouldn’t matter if I called them (in the nicest way possible) unevolved, shallow or rude, it wouldn’t make me any more attractive to them.
lulu Sep 11th 2007 at 06:05 pm 31
I’m 5′5″, on Match and I’m willing to go out with men whose height start at 5′6″. In reality I’m willing to go out with men who are exactly my height but I’ve found that men who say they are 5′5″ are always 5′4″ or shorter.
I don’t mind standing taller than a guy with my shoes on, as long as I’m not obviously taller than him with my shoes off. I’m personally attracted to men around my height (regardless of race), because I like to look into a man’s eyes easily. I guess I’m the exception to the rule because I’ve always preferred shorter men.
Strangely enough, while I’m relatively popular in the sense that I get plenty of dates (with shorter men), I don’t have easier or longer-term relationships compared to my girlfriends who are only attracted to men that are at least 5′10″. I think once you move beyond the initial attraction, shorter men are not “easier” than taller men, especially if they are successful and smart and have other things going for them. Just like overweight women are not “easier” either. In my opinion, this is a good thing
joanie Sep 12th 2007 at 09:08 am 32
Yeah, sheseizereason, I found myself nodding as I read your comments, and scratching my head as I read Evan’s initial post and Tom’s followup.
It doesn’t mesh to on the one hand be so dismissive about the way men can view/use women so superficially and yet be incredulous that women would prefer taller men.
And the numerous references to what Tom finds “sexy” seemed gratuitous, did nothing to advance his positionn and seemed perhaps his way of taking a stab at women who don’t share his views. Almost to say, “if you don’t share this outlook, you’re not sexy.”
Well I guess I’m not sexy because I prefer taller men, despite the fact I’m a triathlete and not in the least bit dainty. Guess I should feel sad or demoralized that someone like Tom doesn’t think I’m VERY SEXY. Life is so unfair.
tom pandolfo Sep 12th 2007 at 05:50 pm 33
I cioncur with you, shesheizereason. My own hyprocritical “preference” (not absolute) was devoid of women who are not, say, slim and athletic.
And in God’s myterious way of rendering justice, I am going out Friday night with a lady who may be deemed “curvy.” Life is an ongoing learning curve and your insight is respected. One should practice what they preach.
justme.jen Sep 14th 2007 at 03:28 am 34
I’m with Paul on this one. This all seems awfully shallow to me. It should be about how you treat each other & how you feel when you’re together. (And I think needing the guy to be bigger than you is really a self esteem issue). I realize initial attraction is mostly physical, which may be a little harder on the shorter guy, or the overweight woman, or whatever trait may make a difference to some. However, if you’re not going to get past that to find out what a great person you may be dealing with, you’re losing out in the end.
Camilla Sep 14th 2007 at 08:39 am 35
Justme.jen wrote: (And I think needing the guy to be bigger than you is really a self esteem issue)
It’s been a bigger self-esteem issue for me to be able to admit what I like, without feeling guilty about it! There’s so much societal programming that says women are supposed to overlook the physical part. Otherwise, we get accused of being “shallow,” by other women. You made my point for me.
Sam Sep 14th 2007 at 11:36 am 36
Maybe having a height minimum isn’t so exceptional. Perhaps height is just the most important physical attribute for a man to have. For those women who categorically refuse to date someone below a particular height, do you have other physical must haves/can’t haves?
For instance, would you go out with someone if he had a really large nose? Lots of body hair? Small hands? A triple chin? Bad skin?
Is height just the first among equals of physical attributes, or is it something that, unlike a big nose, you can’t see past?
jamie Sep 14th 2007 at 01:26 pm 37
Gosh, why does this topic generate so much? Maybe because it cuts to the core of attraction, culture, etc etc?
I’m going to state upfront I am 5′4″, 110 lbs, 39, blond and blue eyes, so I have a lot of options both on and off online dating sites. Yes, the sites can be shallow, but you have to deal with it and keep searching, sooner or later there has to be some good ones out there, tall, short, heavy, thin, male or female. I get hundreds of emails at a time and can tell you, what, maybe 2% are worthy?
Count me in the minority of women who like short guys. To begin with, I checked Tom’s profile and the guy is just gorgeous. If he was in my area I would jump on that in a heartbeat. Evan and him did a great job on the profile, it’s positive, upbeat, confident, funny and intelligent. Far from what paases for the normal blah, blah, blah and its obvious he likes women - although I do note he seems to have a preference for thin (probably due to activity level?) and to be fair, he should expand his own horizons. He’s brave, too, having bared his soul in a public forum (I note everyone except him hides behind our anonymity - nice and safe) and a guy (tall or short) with that much confidence is a man who is in touch with his own feelings and likely to invest in ours. That is very rare girls. It doesn’t surprise me if he were tall, he would be really popular on the dating sites, but why should one small thing take away from that? Most of you gals just don’t get it with men, do you?
I know most of us given the choice between a tall dud and a short stud (Tom is studly in my opinion) take the tall dud and then complain about men? LOL
I think a few of you are misunderstanding his comments. He says he finds strong women sexy and to him a lady who looks beyond height is strong. Just as most of you find tall guys sexy, he finds what a strong lady is in his mind sexy. I don’t see him complaining about being short or saying it’s unfair. I don’t agree with all he says, but it’s an interesting take. But he’s stating this is what reality is to a short man, probably the same thing tall women have to deal with as well. Yes, it’s unfair, but he’s not complaining about it in my view.
Short guys? For me, I had always dated taller guys and then once met a guy a few inches shorter than I who oozed charisma and confidence. He was good looking and that always helps (count me as a hypocrite). We went to bed and I had the best sex of my life.
For the woman having a tough time meeting quality guys, it’s because you all are so narrow and put all of your eggs in a very shallow basket (tall guys). I check the shorter guys all the time because there are tons, tons, of great guys who just happen to be short. I dated other short guys and the same thing always happened in bed….they were tigers and could do things with their hips most taller guys had difficulty doing. They were better in bed. It seems they are always built better and most of them are good dancers and will dance with you instead of what most tall guys do….stand their without doing anything. So for me it is sexual. And it’s also because it increases the number of quality guys. I like tall guys as well. I like men, but give a small edge to the shorter ones because of their superior sexual prowess.
I have to say as well many of my lady friends often ask what I see in the shorter men because most of them can’t, just can’t, go that route. They aren’t axe murderers, they are men, but most of my friends end up going out with some boring guys because they limit their pool to such a small group of guys. Thankfully, I have overcome what is, yes, shallow girls (and I’m vain…..LOL) and now I meet a better quality of men because height is not an issue to me. We’ve spent all this time overcoming the stigma of being female in the world and treated as a second class citizen and now that we have more freedom…..we end making choices about others based on something like gender they can’t change. If we keep to some old standard based on external things, then we are not as free or strong as we can be. Next time a man in power doesn’t promote you or respect you just because you are a female, don’t complain about it, he’s being every bit as judgmental as you are. Neanderthal men (short or tall) do nothing for me and we all know there are still lots of those guys out there.
The bottom line is this: We know it’s shallow, so just admit it. But while I’m out having fun and great sex with cool, interesting, successful and good looking men, and you are complaining (we complain all the time about men, ladies, admit it), maybe you in the final analysis are really the short one. Short guys are no better or worse (well, maybe except for the better sexual aspect of it) than tall men. But from personal experience I can say once I got out of my own safety zone, learned a different world exists out there for women who don’t put their eggs in such limited baskets.
Really cool comments by everybody and those are mine.
Jaclyn Sep 14th 2007 at 01:54 pm 38
I am 5′6, and have often dated men who are my height or shorter. My problem with dating shorter men is that some shorter men get anxious when I wear heels. I had one guy snap at me when we walked across the street and I stood up on a curb before he did. Apparently, it really upset him that I was very tall when I was standing on the curb before him. So I try not to date shorter men anymore, but I would be happy to date one who was completely comfortable with his (and my) height.
Camilla Sep 14th 2007 at 01:55 pm 39
Sam: I for one, like a guy with an imperfect nose. It adds character. In fact, I recently had a date with a guy who looked like a Ken doll, thinking, “that guy would be so much more attractive if he didn’t have such a plain nose.”
Body hair doesn’t matter to me either. All the waxing guys are doing now is kind of off-putting to me. (Blame the porn industry here.)
I suppose really obese is a no, for me. But I don’t mind an extra 20-40 lbs. Maybe even more if the guy’s tall. ; )
Amanda Sep 20th 2007 at 09:06 pm 40
I personally LOVE short men! Seriously. I’m 5′4. Not super short. I used to go for tall guys. The men I dated were always over 6′. Then, I dated a short guy. As I said, I LOVE it!!! Not having to look up all the time. No time spent on my tip toes. Being able to look someone straight in the eyes. I love the build. They are less awkward. I could go on but bottom line, I’m addicted. I’ve actually had a really hard time trying not to disregard tall men. My friends all laugh at me. They can always spot the men I’m into. Add curly dark hair and I’m hooked!
Miss J Sep 24th 2007 at 06:10 am 41
I am 5′ and I love tall guys. I am dating a guy 6′4″. I love guys 6′ plus. I won’t even consider a guy under 5′10. Just my preference. The guys I date are attracted to me as well just as there are men who prefer BBW and women who are ‘very chubby’. I was once dumped by a guy because his type is women with ‘fat rear ends’. There is no rule. Don’t blame us shorter women for dating tall men “leave some for us”. It could be red hair or big xxx that attract men. It is always something.
Scot McKay Sep 25th 2007 at 08:59 am 42
I found this blog while searching for online dating experts for a project I’m doing.
Unfortunately I’m in a bit of a rush at the moment lest I comment further, but I will leave these comments:
1) Regarding the TV study, attempting to apply metrics of real-world human attraction based on an objective list of traits is an untenable concept. In real life each individual’s attractiveness can very easily defy any “standard”.
2) At 5′6″ I eventually was able to achieve a 60-80% response rate on Match.com. Notably I was specifically targeting the very sharpest women in my own estimation. I met my new wife there, who was receiving 200+ emails per day when I met her.
3) The Pittsburgh MSA does not compare to Philly MSA in population size. As such, that experiment is flawed.
4) I personally am convinced that any shorter man can actually be MORE successful than a taller man with women. I have produced an audio program on it with a
Michelle Oct 9th 2007 at 08:39 am 43
Is anyone going to state the obvious? Men can tell age, weight, breast size within seconds of meeting us yet we women can’t really tell a critical factor of physical endowment until we get a man undressed. Fair or not, most people believe that all things are proportional hence a woman who actually enjoys the physical aspect of a relationship may not be inclined to invest in a short man. Sorry boys, size does matter to an awful lot of us.
Yael Oct 9th 2007 at 02:09 pm 44
Tom,
I think the reaon you’re not getting dates is because:
1. You mis-spell words
2. You’re response is toooo long
3. You bring up your sexual habits
4. You don’t seem fun and self-aware
Scot McKay Oct 9th 2007 at 02:17 pm 45
Michelle, that is one of the most ignorant statements I’ve ever seen anyone make publicly.
I fully get that “size matters” sexually to women. But the size of a man’s unit is absolutely not necessarily proportional to his height. That’s like supposing that “taller women have larger breasts” or that “shorter people have smaller noses”.
Seriously.
Melissa Oct 9th 2007 at 03:30 pm 46
In response to Michelle’s comment above:
“Fair or not, most people believe that all things are proportional hence a woman who actually enjoys the physical aspect of a relationship may not be inclined to invest in a short man. Sorry boys, size does matter to an awful lot of us.”
Michelle (and anyone else who shares this belief in all things proportional), two of the tallest guys I’ve dated (6′2″ and 6′4″) also had the smallest penises. Enough said.
Mara Oct 9th 2007 at 07:27 pm 47
Let’s face it - the answer is evolution. Why do tiny, short women love taller men just like the average or tall women among us? Evolution. I think, as someone down here said, that since Asians make up the majority of the world’s population, that is the reason why there are still short men in the gene pool. The short men that are around must be evolving to be extra strong or good at other things, since they don’t have the height advantage. Height surely would have been an advantage in the hunter-gatherer times, in the farming times, and the trait continues.
Has anyone else noticed that we have never ever had a short president? Forget not short, we’ve never had many (or any) presidents that were not taller than average. Hopefully that will change if we finally get a female president. Then again, Hillary is not on the short side of women even. Next to Bill, who is really tall, she can hold her own in the height department.
I am 5′7 and have tried dating one or two short men in my dating life (one recently), but there was definitely a lack of sexual attraction in those cases. A similar trend holds for very skinny or weak men (just ended with one of those, average height, 5′10 but super skinny and weak, not attractive when it came down to it).
Any bias on my part could also be chalked up to my own complex, as my mother is 5′10 and my father is 6′3 and me and my little sister are only both 5′7, we feel a bit gipped. Then again, for a woman it seems that this is a great height, a little tall but can still wear heels and be under 6′. Then again, I wouldn’t mind so much being 6′, maybe I could’ve been a professional tennis player.
JimmyE Oct 10th 2007 at 01:05 am 48
Yael, before you get judgemental about Tom’s spelling, you migh want to consider YOUR response (not YOU’RE response)
realityis Oct 10th 2007 at 04:17 am 49
1- i prefer shorter guys myself, i like to feel equal. but i’m 5′2. (although i must admit if he’s thin then i find it tough)
2- tom, you sound great. try italy for about 2 weeks and you’ll be clobbered with women. this height issue is very much a north american bias.
3- Evan- i’m new to your stuff. please tell me you have some articles that aren’t saying its women’s fault. between this one and the article “Why Men arent Attracted to SMart, Strong Successful Women” you’d think that the failures in the dating world are largely due to women not ‘getting’ it. Guys too, have their biases- about weight, age, appearances, race… etc. i just hope you guve equal opportunity to pointing these things out on both sides.
Vickie Oct 10th 2007 at 04:36 am 50
I love short men! I’m only 5′5″ and don’t like compressing disks in my neck to look up at a guy.
But the reason women go for tall guys is a part of nature. Watch the Discovery channel sometime. The biggest, strongest, most beautiful beasts always win the ladies.
Pat Oct 10th 2007 at 02:52 pm 51
I have to admit that I prefer men that are taller and larger than me to smaller men. It is nothing against the smaller man, he could be a really great guy. It is my own insecurity about my own size. I am hardly petite, I am 5 ft 6 and weigh…well let’s just say I am a larger woman. I think that couples who do not look somewhat proportionate look rather silly together. Plus when I am out with a guy I want to feel like he could protect me. If it looks like I am more likely to kick someone’s butt than my date is, that is not cool!
And on the other side of the coin I am the “older woman” and “heavier woman” that no one wants either so I am not getting any dates as well. It works both ways.
tom Oct 11th 2007 at 07:44 am 52
Love the articles. In response to Yael, though:
1. I’ve dated at least 60 women in the last 3 years because
I am fun, incredibly sexy and handsome to boot, not to mention
very successful.
2. I am involved in a relationship with a gal from Match who
was one of the more popular ladies on the site in terms
of views (5,000 monthly) and emails (over 200 week).
Most men would kill to go out with her and she chose me
(mostly because I am funny and nonjudgmental with my dates.
Most of the ladies I have dated are still friends, in fact.
The main point of the article was that there is a relative, but not absolute bias and I found out what the difference was. But I do fine, I assure you.
Good luck to you.
JuJu Oct 16th 2007 at 07:33 pm 53
Tom, you’ve got some opinion of yourself! This is the point where immodesty is a turn-off.
Hold on a second, is this the same Tom Pandolfo? The one who couldn’t get any women on account of his height?
Anyway, Michelle, the most consistently decently endowed men (of the ones I had) were 5′8″. The problem is, I am not attracted to that height (I am 5′6″, like men at least 5′10″, which coming from me I would think sounds a lot more reasonable than MissJ). I don’t like being taller than my partner on heels and feeling like we are the same size when we are walking (and I am wearing flats), but most importantly, I just do not feel that I am with a MAN. With a man of that stature I feel like I am with a boy. My ex-husband was that height (I was very young and inexperienced when I met him), and I am certain that was one of the main reasons I eventually stopped having sex with him.
The most insignificant penises I’ve had belonged to men around 5′11″-6′ (thankfully, there were only two).
But then, I can’t imagine a man packing anything substantial down there if he is smaller than, say, 5′6″.
tom Oct 17th 2007 at 07:42 am 54
This is last time I will entertain this subject for I am in a great relationship with a wonderful and beautiful woman right now. The “study” was just an unscientific exercise in seeing what the diffference was, online, in terms of dating “potential,” that’s all, not “the ability to get a date,” where I don’t have any problems. If that’s immodest and turns you off, I could care. I am sorry, though, JuJu, that although you are “tall” by female standards as far as physcial stature is concerned, you are rather narrow in terms of what makes up a man, which indicates the possibility you may be a little short in various other areas of greater importance than ones vertical stature. And by the way, if you spent two hours with some men shorter than 5′6″, you may find you would be sleeping with a giant, but I’ll leave it at that so we don’t become too “immodest.”
JuJu Oct 17th 2007 at 09:08 am 55
Again, substitute “overweight women” in any argument you make about the worthiness of short men and you will see how preposterous it all sounds.
Indeed, size says nothing about a person’s intelligence, integrity, kindness, and the overall beauty of their soul. Only this realization on the intellectual level does not help one bit on the physical or emotional.
I am also now convinced that Evan spoke a bit too soon in promoting you. All that anger and lack of class speak for themselves.
Sam Oct 18th 2007 at 06:30 am 56
“Again, substitute “overweight women” in any argument you make about the worthiness of short men and you will see how preposterous it all sounds.”
This may not endear me to everyone here, but I think that many men have good reasons for not wanting to date an overweight man or woman. If someone is really active, he or she is has the right to want someone who can keep up.
I also feel that height preferences are worse than weight preferences because a person has zero control over his or her height. A person does have some control over his or her weight. In my dating, I make a distinction between an overweight woman (with a naturally slow metabolism)who eats right and exercises and an overweight person who also has ice cream for dessert and who sits on the couch all day. I dated an overweight exerciser/eat righter for six weeks once and NEVER THOUGHT of saying anything critical about her body.
JuJu Oct 18th 2007 at 10:38 am 57
It doesn’t have to be weight (it’s just the first one that comes to mind), just substitute any which feature you might find unattractive. Somebody already mentioned huge noses. (Please don’t tell me that, unlike short men, they can have a nose job. :)).
By the way, BeenThruTheWars, the average height for women in the US (for all races) is 5′3″, and for men - 5′9″ (courtesy of Wikipedia and things I heard/read previously). I WISH it was 5′10″ :), but it isn’t.
Now, I finally mustered up the patience yesterday to read Tom Pandolfo’s looooong essay. In all honesty, if he was 6′1″ (my preferred ideal height in a man) and in my age group, I wouldn’t date a man who manages to write so much about so little, operates on faulty premises (cultural conditioning? puhleeze. I never did find poster boys attractive), and, not least of it, spells “femininity” - “feminimity” (and that’s at the age of 48).
Sorry, I had to let that off my chest.
shellacked Oct 18th 2007 at 02:35 pm 58
Tom. You said…”The “study” was just an unscientific exercise in seeing what the diffference was, online, in terms of dating “potential,” that’s all, not “the ability to get a date,” where I don’t have any problems.”
Come on now. It’s ok to admit you needed some help in the getting dates department. That’s why you did the smart thing and enlisted Evan’s services, right?
This defensive denial - btw - is the type of self-deception that, when seen in a short man, we women tend to view as “Napoleonic”.
You know the sure sign of confidence? Just being able to let something go. Think you’re a few thousand words beyond that at this point.
Jabe Oct 30th 2007 at 12:14 am 59
I don’t see how this has failed to come up so far but what about the discrimination against tall women?
I’m 5′10″. I hate wearing heels because they make me feel worse about my stature. I’ve always lacked confidence with guys; partly because I have been told for as long as I can remember that I “can’t” date anyone less than 2 inches taller than me. My friends, my own grandmother even, have made me feel I am unattractive to the majority of men.
So what am I doing now? I’m with a 5′3″ guy. I’ve never felt so confident about my looks.
Chris Oct 30th 2007 at 03:23 pm 60
“Fair or not, most people believe that all things are proportional hence a woman who actually enjoys the physical aspect of a relationship may not be inclined to invest in a short man. Sorry boys, size does matter to an awful lot of us.”
Even if things were strictly proportional, the length difference on a man who is 5′9” and a man who is 5′4” may not be that much in absolute terms.
A 5′9”er might seem a lot taller than a 5′4”er, but really, those five inches are equivalent to 8% of overall height. If the 5′9” man is average in length, as well as height, his would be 6”. If everything were proportional, the 5′4” guy would have one that is 5.5” long.
Women say that size matters, but I can’t believe that five tenths of an inch makes that big a deal in terms of pleasure. Maybe kissing a short guy is awkward, but sex with a short guy might not be that different from sex with a taller guy.
hunter Dec 4th 2007 at 10:31 pm 61
I am 5″10″ and meet women 4′11′–5′1″ all the time. Having their breasts below my belt when I go to hug them is not much of a hug…
jules Dec 5th 2007 at 06:10 am 62
Am I the only one here who finds a striking similarity between tom’s long-winded posts and jamie’s (#37) ?
tom: “I am fun, incredibly sexy and handsome to boot, not to mention very successful.”
jamie: “…I’m out having fun and great sex with cool, interesting, successful and good looking men…”
i’m not saying they are necessarily one and the same person, but why would a self-proclaimed attractive blonde jump into the debate to clarify what tom was trying to say and end up sounding equally sanctimonious and preachy? She also used the same unrealistic and gut-churning descriptions of short men as tigers in the sack, not to mention the same rhetorical device of juxtaposing a woman’s physical preferences with her psychological stature? (“But while …you are complaining (we complain all the time about men, ladies, admit it), maybe you in the final analysis are really the short one…”)
Quite a coincidence!
Lorena Dec 12th 2007 at 12:57 pm 63
I am very tall for a woman. I am 6′1″ in bare feet. I am dating a man who is 5′5″ on a good day. We look ridiculous together, but we are happy. He treats me way better than the 6′7″ man I was with before. Short men are an untapped resource. When my girlfriends complain that there are no good men left out there, I just tell them to “Look Down!”
Lisa Dec 21st 2007 at 11:19 am 64
Same reason most men don’t like seriously overweight women. Because size matters, whether it should or not.
m Dec 21st 2007 at 05:28 pm 65
“Is it so superficial to want someone who is in shape?”
No.
It’s just that everyone who is “in shape’ is NOT thin, and everyone who is thin is NOT “in shape”.
It’s just that men — irrespective of what THEY look like, and irrespective of whether THEY’RE in shape — WANT THIN — they could give less of a damn about in shape.
m Dec 21st 2007 at 05:34 pm 66
“2. I am involved in a relationship with a gal from Match who
was one of the more popular ladies on the site in terms
of views (5,000 monthly) and emails (over 200 week).
Most men would kill to go out with her and she chose me …”
Tom is a status hound.
He’s just been more irritated (and vocal) about it until now, and because he’s short, the women that he’s wanted because it gives him status in other mens’ eyes have overlooked him because of a trait that (sometimes) affects status in other womens’ eyes.
Sam Dec 24th 2007 at 11:53 am