May28
He Said “I Love You” on the Fifth Date and I’m Freaked Out!
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Dear Evan,
So, I met this great guy online. We’ve been exclusive nearly from the start and we really like each other.
However, he’s moving really fast. He said I love you on the 5th date. I just had a deer-in-the-headlights look on my face. He’s said repeatedly that he will take this at my pace, but he’s made it clear that he’s found "the one" and that’s me! While all this is great, it’s a little frightening. Are these red flags? He’s been divorced and dating for about 6 years, so he’s been there and done just about all of that. I’ve only been divorced and dating for about a year and a half and am still finding my way through life as an independent person. He says, and he’s proven in subtle ways, that he’s willing to give me whatever space I need—that he loves me and that’s it for him.
Is this normal? I’ve never experienced this kind of strong emotion from a man. Was I just with the wrong guys if they were more apathetic? If I was more apathetic?
I am falling in love with him, at my own pace, but I’m just wondering if my dating radar isn’t picking up on something here.
Help me figure out if I’m missing something here or do I have a really great guy?
Steffi
Dear Steffi,
I really relish these role-reversal emails, because it just goes to show that it’s never just a “man” thing or a “woman” thing.
Men can be prudish about sex and emotionally vulnerable.
Women can be on the fence about commitment and concerned about clingy men.
Relationships are about people with emotional needs. And those needs are universal.
The above links are probably somewhat instructive. After all, you’re not the first person who’s been concerned that a man has fallen for her too fast.
But let’s take your question on its surface, based solely on what you told me.
Let’s give this guy points for the important things. First of all, he’s being real with you. No games here. (Funny how people complain that they don’t like games, then when someone is nakedly honest with them, they get that “deer in the headlights” look?)
You’ve become the perfect vehicle for all of his dreams and desires, and, from that pedestal, you can’t be on equal footing.
Second of all, he’s self-aware enough to see that he’s freaking you out, which is why he came back with, “We’ll take it at your pace.” Which means, roughly, “I’m going to do a very poor job of pretending I’m not totally whipped on you, and I pray for the day when you show me you’re whipped on me, although that probably won’t happen because it’s hard to respect a guy who is so whipped so soon.”
What’s heartening about your situation, Stef, is that you say you’re falling in love with him at your own pace. That’s usually not the reaction that women have to guys who come on too strong. Credit goes to you for seeing this guy as the man he is, rather than being overwhelmed by his one-sided passion. That said, there IS a red flag. This guy is projecting a LOT onto you. You’ve become the perfect vehicle for all of his dreams and desires, and, from that pedestal, you can’t be on equal footing. I suspect he knows intellectually that you don’t walk on water, but when he’s going through that “puppy love” phase, there’s no room for realism….
Continued on next page >>Filed Under Online Dating Tips & Advice, Sex & Relationship Advice
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CupidsReviews Heidi May 28th 2008 at 08:31 am 1
Right on Stef! I too am amusedby the role reversal, thought I have felt the same way before. Not so much afraid of the commitment as I am of the fact that if I dont start feeling the same way soon, I will really be breaking someones heart. The pressure is on, to be your best and try your best to make it work, which often does the exact opposite.
Selena May 28th 2008 at 08:56 am 2
I think when we say “I love you” really early what we are actually declaring is infatuation. The good news is, infatuation does indeed sometimes become love when you get to know each other better. As long as he’s not pushing you to feel more than you feel, I’d say you are on a happy track.
Honey May 28th 2008 at 10:15 am 3
My best friend dated this guy once who said “I love you” on something like the third date. Turns out he was not blinded by passion at all–he’s a scientist, very analytical, and after spending years deciding what he was looking for and endeavoring to find that out, was able to discern that she had all those qualities very quickly. She was quite thrown at first but decided to give him a chance. It took her a little longer to fall in love with him, but she did, and now they’ve been married over 4 years (together for something like 6). So it’s definitely possible, and doesn’t necessarily mean that he’s in any sort of haze. I say keep going out with him and see how you continue to feel. Good luck!
Marc May 28th 2008 at 11:02 am 4
“I’m falling in love with you at my own pace.” –Something EVERY guy wants to hear after he tells a woman he loves her. Would make a great Hallmark card. You could find it in the “I’m with you because I have nothing better in my life right now” section right next to the birthday cards.
The guy sounds a bit unbalanced to be frank, but doesn’t deserve to have his time wasted, if Steffi isn’t really that into him.
Markus May 28th 2008 at 11:03 am 5
Never say it first guys. This is what happens.
Steve Hedger May 28th 2008 at 11:40 am 6
If Steffi understood this one thing then she would feel a little calmer. What this man is experiencing is, he loves how he’s feeling about himself when he is with this lady. He has fallen in love with his own emotions and has attached those feeling to her.
When you look at instant love this way then it becomes less scary as it’s all about him and not about you Steffi.
You can now relax and explore your emotions when you are with him. If your emotions are saying go slow then listen to them but don’t be put off by his excitment.
You just need to make sure this initial excitement on his part is something that will last.
Time is your friend here. I would just have fun relax and enjoy the attention.
Suz May 28th 2008 at 12:58 pm 7
Hearing “I love you” certainly can freak you out. Though from your letter, it sounds like he didn’t have to say the 3 words for you to know it. Maybe you’ve found a guy that communicates his feelings rather than leaving you guessing. The good thing is that you see the possibility of saying those words back. Have fun and enjoy. Spending more time together and sharing experiences will provide most of the answers you are looking for.
Honey May 28th 2008 at 01:07 pm 8
She never told HIM that she was falling in love at her own pace, Marc–I agree, that would be strange. But she’s self-aware enough to realize that she is, and kind enough not to freak him out with such a statement, and brave enough to not let his admission force any sort of time-table on her.
I think that if she relaxes, then she may very well feel the same way as he does eventually (if he tries to push things along by force despite his promise, THAT’S a warning sign). It seems much more cruel to cut off her budding feelings because their intensity (temporarily) doesn’t match his than it does to let the scales even out in their own good time.
I knew on the first date that my BF was different from all the others, and I told him that I loved him three months before he said he loved me. Now we’ve been together two years, moved in, and are saving for a wedding. How much would we both have been deprived if he broke up with me when I said I loved him–just because he wasn’t there *yet*?
Bank Robber James May 28th 2008 at 04:53 pm 9
I must be missing something - Is it that unusual to say “I love you” on the 5th date?
On the first couple dates is one thing. But on the 5th date? That doesn’t seem odd to me especially if you’ve already been intimate with each other.
Am I missing something here? comments please.
Oh, and I love the “I’m falling in love with you at my own pace…” as if we can control who we fall in love with and the pace we fall in love with someone.
Bank Robber James May 28th 2008 at 04:55 pm 10
Honey - how soon did you tell your BF that you loved him?
downtowngal May 28th 2008 at 07:01 pm 11
I think this sounds like a great situation, Steffi! You’re being honest with him about your feelings and he’s respecting you enough to give you some space, which will only make him respect you more if/when (more likely when) you’re both on the same page and move forward.
How many times do we meet a great guy and it’s like pulling teeth to get him to admit/commit his feelings? This guy sounds like he has his act together. If you’re not feeling it, you’ll know in due time, but give it more time with him and see what develops.
Honey May 28th 2008 at 08:04 pm 12
@Bank Robber–I think we’d been together about 4.5 months, though I knew sooner. I blurted it out while drunk. He told me after about 6 months.
mrs. vee May 28th 2008 at 09:30 pm 13
Something similar to this once happened to me. I was told on the third date by the guy (after spending a considerable amount of time writing and phoning each other) that he “loved” me.
In my case, I saw his big declaration in a negative light because it just didn’t seem all that well thought out. Even if he truly knew himself well and knew everything he was looking for, it spooked me that he was so quick to jump to the conclusion that I was all those things. After just 3 dates.
I thought “he’s never seen me on a bad day” / “he doesn’t know how I am in time of crisis”.
I thought to myself, if the guy actually knew me, he’d know I prefer to sit back and observe before making a judgment on just about anything. I thought, if we were compatible, he’d feel the same as me that it really takes time to get to know a person.
On top of all that, I’d felt like he’d spent so much time fawning over me, that he hadn’t given any time to sharing much about himself. Wasn’t he keeping track of how I might feel about him by that time? The whole thing just seemed entirely one-sided. Plus, if he could say “I love you” after just three dates, his definition of love had to be pretty immature and hollow.
His words had the net effect of putting me off him. Truth is, though, I probably just wasn’t all that into him.
Sorry if I sound down on your situation, Steffi. I’m not. And if you’re falling for the guy too, it’s hard to find anything bad about your situation. I think I’m just grumpy because I’m pregnant and nauseous and have been arguing on housing bubble blogs all afternoon.
Good luck!
Camilla May 29th 2008 at 12:34 am 14
Your mileage may be better, but…
My guy told me he loved me on about the 4th date. I blanched and told him that “most people don’t put that out there so soon.” For awhile, I thought it was just because he speaks without editing (true.) But something made me wonder if he was also trying to secure me. He was clear after a short time that he also wanted me to say it. Holding my own truth, I held off saying the same until I really meant it. Deeper and deeper in love I fell. Him always making this big declarations to encourage it.
4 months later, I discovered he was actively trying to meet other women he met online. Simultaneous with his spoken and written declarations of our “soulmate” love. I broke up with him when I found out (2 weeks ago.)
Still sorting it out, but I think that early declaration of love was not out of love but instead his insecurity. He wanted to know I was hooked. Once hooked, he wanted to play around. Overall, I’d say that it was an early indicator/ red flag I should have heeded. Most people have boundaries that would make them wait a bit on the “love” word, yanno’?
Alan May 29th 2008 at 04:51 am 15
I’d love to hear Evan respond to Marcus’ comment (#5).
Markus May 29th 2008 at 07:04 am 16
Alan,
I believe Evan disagrees with me.
Evan Marc Katz May 29th 2008 at 07:09 am 17
Let’s put it this way: if men won’t say it first to protect themselves, and women won’t say it first to protect themselves, then you’re in an emotionally guarded standoff of a relationship. SOMEONE has to let his/her guard down by saying “I love you,” but it’s probably best to do it when you sense it’s going to be reciprocated.
Alan May 29th 2008 at 09:38 am 18
Thanks, Evan.
Markus May 29th 2008 at 11:06 am 19
However, it is still sociologically negative for men to be viewed in the submissive role which is exactly where he ends up if “there’s no return”. The last time I said it I was almost asleep and my subconscious stabbed me in the back. As soon as it rolled out I realized and put my head in my hands. It’s like a freaking stare-down.
Steffi May 29th 2008 at 11:49 am 20
To clarify a few things:
First, let me say that I really appreciate your comments. I love the different perspectives. Okay then, we were not intimate until the 8th date. I am a slow mover with intimacy - that’s just who I am. I responded once that he was so romantic and his reply was that he has never been romantic before but he wants to get this right and not play games. I appreciate this. He is very vocal about how he feels - even as I have, over the last three or so months, fallen for him, I’m still not where he is yet. He is ready for me to move in and fully share his life - I think that’s totally rushing it so I slow him down and am thankful for my lease (I’m being funny here BTW!). I’m the only girl he’s ever introduced to his kids and he would like to spend every minute with me. I appreciate this, but can’t do it - I’m more independent than that.
I guess I’m still torn — I do love him and I feel great with him and I have tons of fun with him - all this is VERY good . . . but . . . I’m still really reserved and possessive about my space. That’s just who I am no matter who I am with. But now I think it’s more of a boundary issue (post divorce personal space independence thing) than being freaked out by the early I love you. In short, he’s still freaking me out, but I think this is my baggage now.
What do y’all think?
Jessica May 29th 2008 at 12:43 pm 21
I could not have come across this posting at a better time. I am 29 he is 44. He has never been married, does not have any kids and we instantly connected through an online dating service 8 weeks ago and are supposed to meet for the first time in a couple of weeks and I am petrified! why? he has already said I love you, I need you, wants 3 kids, calls me his wife, calls my sisters “his sisters in law”, has told his parents about me, oh yeah this week alone, I have received an expensive bracelent from tiffany’s and a bouquet of roses!
I feel suffocated and overwhelmed! How can this be! he is exactly what I had prayed for? a man that communicates, gets my wierd sense of humor, he is the perfect age (I love older men) so..why do I feel like he has “ruined it” by wearing his heart on his sleeve like that? I have been in his shoes before and I know what un-reciprocated love feels like but I don’t want to get married next week? I have told him that he needs to give me time to get to know him and have suggested that he stays in a hotel when he gets here/rents a car etc but he literally cried on the phone asking if he could sleep in my spare bedroom! He finally agreed to take things slow but he has been taking on a guilt trip about it! I feel like the “bad guy” here!
Do I trust him, yes I do - but do I want to make the news for inviting a potential Ted Bundy into my home - absolutely not! I have worked really hard to get to my high level position at work and I am taking 2 unscheduled vacation days July 4th weeked to spend 5 days with him but he wants to be here for the entire week (from the previous weekend - 9 days) so that we can spend more time together? I expressed concerns about leaving him alone to roam the city because I have work but he does not care? okay..am I being a total bitch here? Please be honest? I want to make “us” work but I also don’t want to feel this kind of pressure. Thanks! Jess
Honey May 29th 2008 at 02:26 pm 22
@ Jessica–If I were you I would end this IMMEDIATELY, before he has a chance to be in your home. Although it is tempting to interpret his actions as sweet or devoted, it seems pretty clear that he is not interested in true communication or connection with you–instead he is in this for him. He has given you a “guilt trip” for laying down ground rules that make yourself comfortable, is constantly pressuring you for things that you are not willing to give, and gives you presents that IMO are TOTALLY inappropriate if you haven’t even met yet.
If you think that there is a possibility and the guy is just clueless and socially awkward, then by all means he should still come visit. However, you should REFUSE to let him stay at your house and put your foot down about the 5 days (not 9) as well. I would also recommend that he rent his own car so that if you don’t get along he won’t be without transportation. Tell him that this is a basic safety issue for a single woman and is non-negotiable. If he truly respects you and wants this to work than he has no choice but to adhere to whatever boundaries you set.
Honestly, your scenario sounds every alarm bell I have and I would run in the other direction as fast as I could. But maybe that is just me? I can’t wait to see what others think.
Selena May 29th 2008 at 03:23 pm 23
It’s not just you Honey. It would sound every alarm bell I have as well. Honestly, this man’s behavior is so completely over-the-top it’s scary. He’s calling you his wife? Refering to your sisters as his sisters-in-law? And you’ve never even met?
Jessica, he just sounds so unbelievably manipulative to me–please don’t agree to his terms. If you do want to meet him have him stay in a hotel at the very least.
Glenda May 29th 2008 at 03:31 pm 24
Jess,
I TOTALLY agree with Honey–You need to end this ASAP!!! This guy is sending up HUGE red flags, and you need to run away from this relationship as fast as possible!!!
I’ve facilitated a women’s domestic violence group in the past, and this guy sounds like he fits the profile of someone who MAY fit into the category of an abuser. Some of the signs are someone who rushes into a relationship and declares their feelings inappropriately early (and telling you he loves you when he’s never met you IS inappropriate), he’s already claiming you as “his own” by calling you his wife, he’s getting inappropriately upset when he doesn’t get his way (such as staying at your house), he’s trying to control you and manipulate you into getting his way by using the whole guilt trip thing, and now he’s sending way too expensive and too many gifts in a short time period to make up for his poor behavior. From my past experience with women in the support group, unfortunately, these type of things don’t bode well for a relationship.
Other things to ask yourself about the relationship is why has he never been married at 44 but is suddenly in such a rush to do so now? And how did his other relationships end–was it always something the women did and he was never at fault? If so, that’s another red flag, because if he’s the type of personality I’m afraid he may be, then he won’t feel he’s done anything wrong, EVER.
And your Ted Bundy comment tells me that your intuition is telling you that you really don’t feel safe the more you are learning about him, no matter how wonderful things were at the beginning. I’m a big believer in listening to your intuition, especially in situations like these, since it usually is picking up on small but VERY important things we overlook for one reason or another. PLEASE reconsider meeting this man. And if you have any doubts, you may want to look at Dr. Irene’s website–www.drirene.com. She has lots of wonderful information on verbal abuse on it. While I cannot say that is what is happening in your relationship, from what you written, it does not sound like the basis of a healthy relationship.
Best of luck to you!!! And please keep us posted!
Honey May 29th 2008 at 04:04 pm 25
Jessica, let me also recommend that if you do try to end this that you do not try to provide him with any sort of lengthy (or even any) explanation. You met online, and you’ve never met in person. You don’t owe this guy ANYTHING.
In my experience fellows like this have a tendency to perceive explanations as the jumping-off point to negotiations. I.e., when you say that you’re breaking up with him because of x, y, and z, he figures that as long as he (appears to) have a plan for overcoming x, y, and z then there is no reason the relationship shouldn’t continue. Then he’ll make you feel unreasonable and guilty for sticking to your guns, or even like a liar if it comes out that those aren’t your real reasons for continuing to refuse him.
The less you give him to work with, the more power you will have. Simply say, “This isn’t going to work for me and I’d rather we not continue contacting each other.” If he presses you for an explanation just refuse–his response will tell you all you need to know about next steps (such as saving all the e-mail correspondence if you want to make a complaint to the dating service or the police). I know this may seem like over the top advice, but it is SO much better to be safe then, as you say, Ted Bundy’s victim.
Eda May 29th 2008 at 04:30 pm 26
Jessica,
I agree with all the other ladies. Please end your “relationship” with this man right now. He does not sound like he is stable and he is demanding way more from you than you should give. In my opinion, any man who really cares about a woman would put her safety first. As soon as you indicate you don’t feel safe doing something that he has requested, he should back off and say and mean, “I don’t ever want you to do anything that makes you feel unsafe or uncomfortable.” The fact that this man has tried to make you feel guilty about your boundaries and concerns is an important warning sign that you should not ignore. It is a sign that you need to run away and never, ever connect with him again….no phone contact, no email, no texting …nothing. Please don’t ever feel that that putting your safety — of your heart, your body and anything else important to you — is bitchy behavior. It’s the behavior of a sane and confident woman who cares for herself.
Finally and importantly, please don’t feel that this guy is the only man who will get you and your weird sense of humor or do many of the things you want. I know too many women who have stayed in bad relationships with men because they have this crazy belief that there is no other man out there who will want them. If thoughts like that are swimming around in your head and making you reluctant to let go of him, please erase them from your mind. They are not true. When you let this guy go, you will be free to find a man who really will love and respect you.
Good luck.
sheseizereason May 29th 2008 at 05:00 pm 27
Jessica -
Your guy sounds either obsessive or insincere. If it’s the former, he’s scary, and if the latter, he’s cheesy. Do you have a preference?
- ssr
P.S. Congratulations on Baby Vee, Mrs.Vee.
Steve May 29th 2008 at 05:46 pm 28
Jessica;
If this guy isn’t a kook or a neurotic, he is emotionally immature. Whatever he is, you are not going to get a rewarding relationship with him. None of those things makes him a bad person, just a person you will be happier not to be involved with.
Send him a brief, polite note like the one you posted here explaining this to him. Make that you absolute last contact with him ever and do what you can to make sure that he can never contact you again.
Good Luck
Jessica May 29th 2008 at 05:57 pm 29
@Honey, Selena, Glenda, Eda, and sheseizereason - I am crying so hard right now because I took a stand and lets just say that things did not go too well. I am too upset to write down the details.. but I am literally, shaking. Glenda, he threatened to come to GA and find me! He does not have my home address (just my work - where the gifts were sent) - I did not give that to him, he found it through our communication on what I do for a living. As embarrassing as it maybe I have to come clean with my Boss on appropriate security measures. You know what is so strange is that I did not know about this website but for the past 2 days I have been tossing and turning ..scatter brained, restless especially today .. because he had started to plan our holidays and my birthday weekend.
I finally sat back and typed the word “obesessive men” and found this Forum. You have no idea the things that are running through my head right now! - I will give an update in a couple days.. but.. I am literally shaking and crying because each and every thing that you all wrote is coming to pass. - I am not easily moved by alot of things but..this has shocked me to my core. I sought an honest opinion even 6 hours ago.. and I know keep saying this.. but each and every word has come to pass..
Steve May 29th 2008 at 05:59 pm 30
Honey;
You have some interesting thoughts in post #25.
On the one hand, I had a friend in college who attracted the kind of guy you described and trying to negotiate closure with them only got them more entangled in a nasty way.
On the other hand, not everybody is a basket case and feedback on what didn’t work can be the first step on sending some people on their way to improving themselves.
What do you think about sending some brief feedback explaining what didn’t work before cutting the person off?
On the one hand I think it could backfire with people who are far gone. They could take it as an insult and get angry. On the other hand the feedback might help a clueless but otherwise nice person.
Steve May 29th 2008 at 06:08 pm 31
Honey May 29th 2008 at 02:26 pm 22
If you think that there is a possibility and the guy is just clueless and socially awkward, then by all means he should still come visit.
I disagree. If he is harmless, but THAT socially clueless there is no way either of them are going to have a rewarding relationship together. Aside from being nicer to her it would be nicer to him to end it sooner.
Steve May 29th 2008 at 06:17 pm 32
Jessica;
I wrote some posts before I read your post, #29. Please disregard everything else I had to say. Close your web site account where this guy found you, immediately. Call a battered women’s shelter. Explain your situation to them and ask them for advice on how to handle things from this point on.
Talk with your boss and do not feel embarrassed under any circumstances. YOU DID NOT DO ANYTHING WRONG You are not the first woman something like this has happened to and you will not be the last. You were just trying to improve your social life like any human is entitled to do and you stumbled across an unfortunate person the way many of us could have. Do not feel bad about it. Get information on how to protect yourself, do it, and move on.
Good Luck
Glenda May 29th 2008 at 06:26 pm 33
Jess,
You are an incredibly strong and brave woman to have read everyone’s feedback, digested it, taken it to heart and acted upon it so swiftly!!! I’m truly sorry to hear that everyone’s fears have been realized and the situation has turned really ugly.
You are VERY wise to tell your boss about what is happening! And there is absolutely no reason to be embarrassed or ashamed–YOU have done nothing wrong!!! While he may not act upon his threat, and I will pray for you that he does not, you need to be extremely cautious right now. I suggest calling the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233, and they will put you in touch with a center in your local area. They will be a wealth of information on the laws in Georgia pertaining to restraining and protective orders and whether either is needed in your case, as well as helping you to do everything possible you can do to remain safe. All of these services should be free of charge.
Whatever you do, do not take any more of his calls–let them go to voicemail and save the messages, in case you need them. Also, do not respond to any texts or emails, as Honey said before, even to tell him it’s over or go away, because for guys like this, ANY communication is an open door to keep contacting you and offers him a glimmer of hope. Just keep a record of everything!
You sound like an intelligent woman with a great deal of common sense, and it sounds like you’ve handled yourself well throughout the relationship by setting boundaries. So please, don’t be hard on yourself–this is HIS issue, not yours!!
Keep us posted, PLEASE!!! You’ll be in my thoughts!
Selena May 29th 2008 at 06:39 pm 34
Wow Jessica, I am so, so sorry. I thought the guy was over the top, but…wow, just wow. Please be careful, careful and write back here when you can.
Jessica, THANK GOD you changed your mind about him staying with you! I’m so glad you found this board.
I will be thinking of you hon, and praying this situation doesn’t go any further.
Selena
Honey May 30th 2008 at 07:25 am 35
@Jessica, I am so sorry to hear that all this happened! Let me reiterate along with everyone else that this is not your fault. Please keep us posted if you have a chance…
@Steve–The one time that I tried to give a guy feedback on why I was ending it, it was this horrible downward spiral that led to him saying some very nasty things to me, so I tend to avoid it. And especially in Jessica’s circumstance she should NOT be talking to him. That’s not to say that there aren’t some people who can’t benefit from the feedback, or wouldn’t accept it graciously. I just have a hard time imagining who that might be–seems like someone who would accept my feedback would be someone that I wouldn’t dump (because we could actually successfully work on things).
As far as giving a HARMLESS socially clueless guy a chance (your post #31), if they don’t get a learning experience somewhere then I think that’s crueller. Emotional maturity doesn’t happen overnight (I should know!). But I’m picking up what you’re putting down, all the same. Thank god Jessica didn’t take that portion of my advice…
Steve May 30th 2008 at 08:35 am 36
Honey;
Post #35
I understand where you are coming from. Like I wrote, I saw what happened to you happen to some women friends of mine. Do you think giving an explanation in a note then cutting a guy off would work where discussing things wouldn’t? If I was a woman I would hesitate to do that for fear it would upset the guy enough to come find me.
Having been the clueless, but harmless guy when I was younger I do like the idea of giving the guy a clue before cutting him off. I eventually figured out where I was going wrong on my own, but it would have been nice, useful, faster and less hurtful to have been given a clue. However, having been that guy as a young 20 something I can understand and endorse a woman not wanting to deal with the harmless but socially clueless guy.
Thanks for being honest. Aside from Evan’s good advice one of the useful things about this blog is the honesty in the comments section. People are honest and write things other people need to read.
sheseizereason May 30th 2008 at 01:19 pm 37
That’s truly awful, Jess. And as tempted as I am to say he’s probably all talk and that he was probably just trying to scare you, you should take his threats very seriously.
If you fear for your safety, stay with a friend or relative. Change your phone number. If necessary, your state may allow you to get a restraining order, which will help you by putting your local law enforcement on alert for your potential danger, and making it a criminal act for him to harrass you.
Go to this website, look up your state and learn what you can do to protect yourself.
http://www.womenslaw.org/laws_state_type.php?id=65&state_code=GA
Please be careful and I’m really very sorry. This is not a laughing matter for you.
-ssr
sheseizereason May 30th 2008 at 01:20 pm 38
P.S. Jess, see the link I gave for info on “stalking protection orders”.
sheseizereason May 30th 2008 at 04:44 pm 39
On whether or not to say I love you first, would anyone truly fall in love with a person whom s/he believed was going to think less of him/her for loving that person?
Markus May 31st 2008 at 09:08 am 40
Jess,
Sorry you are dealing with this. I would call the cops.
Michael Ejercito May 31st 2008 at 05:06 pm 41
Jessica,
You obviously have a bigger problem than Steffi does.
A man telling you that he loves you on the fifth date is little cause for alarm, unless the five dates happened within three days. But calling you his wife before you are married is definitely creepy.
Jessica Jun 1st 2008 at 05:02 pm 42
Hey Everyone,
Thanks for the words of wisdom and support - Alot has been happening since my last post but I will try and give a “compressed” version of events. I called the guy up and he was leaving work and asked to call me back. Armed with the advise from this site, my mum, friends, and “bitchy attitude due to lack of sleep” - I nervously waited for him to call me back.
He called at went straight to “hi baby, how was your day” - and before I could respond - he said “I was thinking that perhaps you could come to AZ with me for thanksgiving and we could celebrate Christmas in GA” - Not sure what happened to me but I just told him.. NO! I don’t want to do this anymore, I can’t do this anymore! and he said “what do you mean”? and I flat out told him that I felt unheard, suffocated, smothered and I was flat out scared that things were moving a little too fast and I thought that we should end this - whatever it was right away.
He literally went insane! and told me that he was madly in love with me, that he was ready to marry me, start a family and that I was his soulmate! He said that he would come to GA and find me if that is what it would take to convince me that he was serious/sincere. I could write down word for word what he said - but it would take up the entire night - but in a nutshell - I had told him that we were not working out and he went insane.
I hang up the phone and my VM was filled with messages - some scary, some heartbreaking, some outright bizarre. I could not stop crying - I know this will not make sense but I felt bad for him especially after listening to some of the voice messages. I called a friend who is married to a detective and he walked me through what I should do. We actually sat in my living room and read through all the responses and he helped me understand my rights etc.
I know you will all scream at this point - but the next day - he sent me a text message and I responded. Soon after - we were on the phone for 6 hours - (I am only telling the truth because one post advised me against as he would suck me in) - and yes - he sucked me right in.. making promises of taking things slow. He said that he had booked a flight to come to GA and was going to come to my workplace and declare his love. He had told his boss that he had a family emergency - I should have hang up at that poing - but he said that he was willing to respect my boundaries - to include getting a hotel room, rental car whenever he came to visit. He said that he had never fallen so fast and so hard before because he had not connected with anyone on such a deep level. He talked about his childhood, his struggles etc - he explained that his job had required him to travel around the country for many years and he did not think that it was fair for him have a family under the circumstances.
He said that he has always had a passion for cars, pursued that passion and chose work over relationships. (he designs parts for NASCAR). He has been in 3 serious relationships - two for 6 years and the third for 4. - They all ended because he did not want to get married at the time - or atleast until he had accomplished all his goals. - He says that he has done everything he could ever have hoped to do and is ready to get married/have kids - thus the “intensity”.
He said that he was so desperate to express his feelings and may have come off as insecere and apologized for that. For the next day or two - it was lighthearted conversations until I told him that I was going out with the girls for movie and drinks. He sounded a little cold and he kept burning up my phone all night long!! I got home and he wanted to know where we were, what we had done, if any men had hit on me.. etc. - Suddenly, the true colors were back - We argued for 3 hours straight and then he finally said - “I am making so many sacrifices for you and to be with you, my trip up there is costing me $1200″!! Don’t you get that I am in love with you and I want you all to myself??!
I reminded him that we had discussed this and he said - “to be honest with you - I am dissapointed that I cannot stay with you when I get there” “I am so desperate to be with you” “you are all I want” “you are my soulmate” “we are meant to be together” “you are my wife” etc.. - He also told me that he had gone back to the online dating site and my profile still listed me as “single” - “why don’t you delete it:” - you are off the market now!
Let’s just say after that incident - I changed my phone number, closed out my e-mail accounts, deleted my profile and had a meeting with my boss and office manager about security. I will be honest with you - I am a little scared. My friends, family and co workers have rallied around me and we are taking every precaution. All our e-mails, voicemails have been notarized and are with the detective for safe keeping.
When we went to the police station - I was told that I could not get a restraining order since he has not “threatened to cause any bodily harm”. I told them that he had told me that if he can’t have me then no one else will” but since there is no evidence - they called it heresay. - Anyway.. I am a little on edge..and I pray that things settle down.
Thanks for you all your support - Jess.
Honey Jun 1st 2008 at 07:26 pm 43
Oh, Jess, I’m so sorry! Please, do not talk to him again (though it does not sound possible for him to get ahold of you). Did you e-mail the dating service you were using? I would. Oh, what a horrible thing to have happened. I am thinking of you…
Glenda Jun 1st 2008 at 07:40 pm 44
Jess,
Thank you so much for updating us on how you’ve been doing. I’ve been worried about you!!!
And PLEASE, no one should judge you for responding to his text message–you’re human and had a bond with him. Plus, he was following the typical cycle of violence–moving into the honeymoon phase (playing REALLY, REALLY nice and saying EVERYTHING you needed to hear after a huge blowup to win you back), and that’s why so many women continue to stay in abusive relationships, because there’s that honeymoon period, which they keep hoping will last forever. Did you know, that, on average, it takes a woman 7 times of leaving and going back before she is finally able to leave for good an abusive man? So, you are way ahead of the game there!!!! Way to go, girl!!! Just continue to stay strong with the support of family, friends, and coworkers. I think it’s really courageous and wonderful that you reached out to everyone!!!
If you haven’t yet, I would seriously consider contacting a domestic violence center near you. While the police have said there is nothing you can do, that may be true for a protective order, which in Connecticut, where I am, involves a criminal offense, such as assault and battery. However, a restraining order can be obtained based on the threat of bodily harm. Since he sounds so unstable (and I don’t mean to scare you by saying this), I would definitely look into whether or not you can get one. Plus, I would share his picture with your coworkers, neighbors, and security, just to be extra-safe. Most of these nut-jobs will NEVER follow through–thankfully, they lose interest when you no longer continue contact. BUT, better safe than sorry!!
Keep us posted, sweetie!!! =))
Hat Pines Jun 1st 2008 at 09:20 pm 45
Amazing that women are so easily manipulated.
Jessica Jun 2nd 2008 at 03:38 am 46
@ Hat P. - It’s people like you that discourage women like me to be honest and seek help. I went into online dating with an open mind, good intentions and I have taken every precaution possible. I had started to like this guy alot and unfortunately the situation is what it is. I do hope that your loved ones never have to go through this kind of sheer terror. I do not regret seeking true love. - Have a great day and thanks for your comments - they are hurtful, but I should expect this. - I don’t think I will post anything here anymore but I wanted to say thanks to everyone for their words of wisdom - You may have saved my life. Thanks, Jess.
Markus Jun 2nd 2008 at 04:16 am 47
Jess,
Get a big dog or a gun and learn how to use it. Under NO circumstances, NONE, should you let him into your house. Once he steps foot on your property you can call the cops. In fact, no matter how much they ignore you and make excuses, call the cops and make sure they note what more he has done. Good luck.
Selena Jun 2nd 2008 at 05:27 am 48
Jess,
Don’t feel you need to stop posting because of one idiot. Gotta wonder if Hat Pines is one of the internet manipulators, hmm.
So sorry it turned out this way for you, but by sharing your story in this public forum, you may have helped many other women to pay attention to those “red flags” that can come up in internet dating and elsewhere. Thank you for being so honest.
Stay safe. I’ll be thinking of you. (((Hugs)))
Selena
Glenda Jun 2nd 2008 at 05:51 am 49
Jess,
Please don’t let one narrow-minded individual keep you from posting in the future. Your story obviously touched a great many people here, and like Selena said, your honesty may also help other women in similar situations.
And the fact that you’re not one of the women who ended up in a 4 or 6 year relationship with this guy, but instead sought advice before meeting him, says to me that you are NOT easily manipulated!!! Even though you had feelings for him, you knew something was wrong with the whole situation. He’s 44, so he’s had years to become very good at what he does–so don’t buy into any BS about things you did, etc. Remember, it’s HIS issues, NOT yours!!!
And please keep us posted, at least to just to let us know you’re okay.
I’ll be thinking about you!
Glenda
Steve Jun 2nd 2008 at 06:57 am 50
Jes;
It sounds like you are covering all of the bases by contacting the police, your boss, and consulting with your detective friend. I would also set your answering service up to record your phone conversations in case he finds your new number.
Out of curiosity, why didn’t you just send a note explaining that he was stepping across healthy boundaries for you, him, and his love life before simply cutting him off? Why did you have those multiple awful conversations with him after you decided you wanted to end things?
I’m not saying it is wrong. I am curious? What was the point if you wanted to cut yourself loose and if you left the guy a clue to help himself with?
Jessica Jun 2nd 2008 at 08:22 am 51
@Steve - because I am weak - period. There is no excuse.. I was beginning to fall for this man; and even when I thought that things were a little out of control and sought help.. I somehow had an urge to get back to make sure that I had not let a good man go? - I know.. I know.. it’s twisted.. but a part of me just wanted to make sure that my mind was not playing tricks on me.. and that he could be just socially “odd”… and as sick as this may sound - I needed to hear his voice one more time.. in a sane manner - Wanted to hold on to that and block out the threats… the hysteria, the demands.
I thought it might also be easier if we talked (for him/for me) instead of sending a note. I wanted an instant response, I wanted explanations as to what was so hard/impossible about respecting my boundaries - etc. The other thing too.. is that I just felt unheard and when I looked back at our interactions - he would hear what I was saying and it would not “stick”.
I am a what people like to refer to as “level headed” and I have made great judgements over the years.. but there was something about this guy that just captivated me as well?
Crazy uh?
(I have a feeling this post will open to more criticism and insults like I got from Hat P.)
Markus Jun 2nd 2008 at 08:30 am 52
Let it go Steve.
jenNYC Jun 2nd 2008 at 08:33 am 53
Steffi…..I think my comment may give you some more perspective. This was a great post. I think us girls are annoying sometimes. We bitch and moan when a guy waits forever to say I love you, and than get creeped out when he says it on date five. Do I believe there is happy medium with love ? Absolutely, because I found mine. As I have stated in previous comments on this blog, when the realtionship feels right, things just happen naturally. Granted, we all have timelines in our heads about when a guys is supposed to say I love you, but if you feel the same, than him saying it on date five is not creepy or scary, but totally fabulous. No? In fact, one of my good friends has a friend (true stroy) who went on one date with a guy and they both said I LOVE YOU and are still together almost one year later. Now, do I think this was LOVE or most likely lust and two people, whom like Evan said, we in the same place emotionally? Some woman think it is totally normal to fall in love date one, and hey some woman cant wait to fall in love and hear a man say it, because it is what they need. (Hence my ex’s sister who got engaged with a three Karrot ring after one month of knowning her now husband. This is the same woman who went through men like toilet paper and settled on the ones who made the most money to take care of her and her daughter. Am I being harsh? No it is true. She was as transparents as a piece of glass but the guys she dated bough it and eventually bought her and her daughter.)
As I digress, I make the point that we all have different needs. Let me tell you one more story about me and the ex. I have referred to him on many posts not out of anger but because I have learned so much from that relationship about myself and my understanding of love. I was 25 and my best friend of six years began pursuing me for a relationship for almost six months. He was absolutely sure I was “the one” as he told me so many times. I loved him and I wanted to date him and we did for six short months. In fact, the first day we made the step from best friends to dating, he told everyone we were boyfriend and girlfriend and he must have told me he loved me about ten times that night. It totally creeped me out and I was angry that he assumed I was automatically his girlfriend even if we knew each other for six years. It also bothered me that he proclaimed his love for not because I didnt beleive he didnt love me as we were friends for so long, but he was not able to nor did not care that I was not in that place and his need to say it was much greater than his recagnize that I wanted to take things one day at a time and just enjoy our new found relationship. In fact I felt daily that he just wanted a girlfriend (”insert girl here”) as most of the relationship came to be about fulfilling his needs.
At 25 I didnt know how to use my voice and speak up for myself and my emotions. How could he know he loved me right away? Granted, I loved him but I was not “in love” with him as we were just becoming intimate. Of course I believed he loved me as he made me feel like a princess and told me over and over I was the best thing that ever happened to him, well for the first three months. After that it was like crash and burn as Evan said regarding the analogy to the cocaine high. My ex lusted after me and loved me so much for months that three months into dating, as I was falling more in love with him, he was pushing me away and making excuses about not seeing me and “needing his own time.” I was so hurt and angry and wanted to scream “You could not wait to date me, and now you dont want to be around me”!?” The rejection was awful and I ended it after six months. The same guy who swore I was his soul mate grew out of love with me after three months? You can sense I still have anger about it and although I have worked through most of it, it never really goes away as I loved him and I wanted things to work. I have always been honest about that and nothing hurts more than loving someone who cannot or will not love you back.
Soooooooo my story has more to it as I totally 100% think and acutally always believed, even though I did not want to admit it, that he was gay. (This is where my anger comes in because I should have known better as they say, but I have forgiven myself.) This conclusion was not to make me feel better after he pulled away from me, but all the sign were there and I realized, like McGreavy;’s wife, I was there to be a stand in wife to a guy who could not admit the truth about himself. Now, you are thinking that has nothing to do with Steffi’s story but it sort of does in a way. As a woman, you have instinicts and when you ignore them you get yourself in a relationship that you are not so crazy about. That does not mean you do not want to date this guy, but if you feel him saying “I love you” is a possible red flag, than this guy is not for you. That does not also mean you have to write him off this second, but think about what your gut is telling you. The most painful and shortest relationship of my dating years turned out to be the biggest life lesson for me. Never settle on love. It will find you.
My happy ending came after many years of dating and being single after the ex who was in his world, supposed to be my husband and happily ever after. I accpeted that if I feel something does not feel right, than I move on. As hard and shitty as it is to be single and dating. I actually met my fiance on JDate two years ago and we are getting married in Nov. I have to say that when we dated, not one thing was creepy, weird or awkward. Everyhing just sort of happened naturally. He said I love you when I least expected it and when I was ready to hear it but he didnt know that. We moved in together when it was right and he proposed with out me having to ask, beg or give altimatums. I guess in my very long winded and poorly spelled post, when we have to ask all of these questions, we know what the answer is. I dont think love is simple or easy by any means and my man is not perfect nor am I, but overall the natural course of our relationship has been the core of my love for him.
Only you know what you want, when you want to hear it. If the bells are going off, it is probably for good reason and it is time to think about what you know rather than you what you think!
Good luck….love it out there!
Jen
Steve Jun 2nd 2008 at 09:39 am 54
Jessica;
Post #51. I wouldn’t say you are weak. You had a rational explanation. You didn’t feel “done” with the guy and wanted to hear what he had to say in response to your issues. Thanks for satisfying my curiosity. As far as criticism goes I wouldn’t take it personally. Everybody gets it all over the internet.
Leo Jun 2nd 2008 at 01:29 pm 55
@Jessica - all the best - I thought you might find this article from USA today regarding many “over 40 somethings” find love - most have never been married and are now finding love.
I thought it might be interesting to read some of the reasons why and as with your case - most of these men put career over romance. I hope this renews your faith in online dating and helps you know that there are some good guys out there - some older (which is a preference for you) that are true and honest.
WITH THAT SAID PLEASE BE CAREFUL - My sister was murdered by her overly obsessive husband and I am glad that you had the courage to speak up. You are a shining example to other women.
@Steffi - who knows - maybe you are the “cat’s meow”! - I am sure that things will work out for you as well.
As a man - this has been a very eye-opening “forum” for me - and a healing of sorts.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-06-01-late-life-marriage_N.htm?POE=click-refer
Michael Ejercito Jun 2nd 2008 at 04:25 pm 56
Jessica,
Almost everyone has weaknesses. We just have to learn from them and to overcome them.
sheseizereason Jun 3rd 2008 at 10:16 am 57
jess - you’re not weak for falling for the guy, or even hoping you could fall for the guy.
we’re always told that in any relationship you have to overlook some of your partner’s flaws. it just takes time to decide for yourself which ones you’re willing to overlook. they never talk about how difficult it can be to discover your own parameters.
but that’s what all our failed relationships are for, I guess.
Steffi Jun 3rd 2008 at 07:48 pm 58
Regarding post #41 - yes, and that’s why I just stayed in the background and let Jess get some needed advice. This is what is so wonderful about the open forum here.
Regarding me — we had a long talk this weekend and I’ve voiced many of my concerns and our relationship is going to be a lot slower and more fun and light. It’s nice to know this, but I don’t want it to overshadow something really great.
Thanks everyone –
tracey Oct 27th 2008 at 01:44 pm 59
hi i had just recently met a guy online who sounded wonderful to but he sure scared me off before i even met him he was saying i was the one!I’m a very attractive 48 yr old part time model and he’s 35 he kept repeating that I was everything he’d been looking for,i recieved sms’s everyday and he would start texting me and asking me the stupidest things just so he could hear from me,he even told his mother,father,and sister about me and he started planning our future together and saying if i was with you i would give you 110%and started saing things like(when your with me if you want to go out with your girlfriends at anytime thats cool,just let me know and there won’t be any dramas!!!)HELLO RED FLAG AND POSESSIVE ALREADY!!!)THIS WAS BEFORE I EVEN MET HIM??? and after only one meeting he told me he was in love with me and wanted to buy me flowers every friday and he would wait for me as long as it took and would pay expensive money to have my hair done if i wanted ect…,i told him to back off and had enough of this too much too soon drama and making me feel uncomfortable and told him we are just going to have to stay friends as we are,then after a second meeting of just being friends and wanting to hang out with me(as he tried to make me think) he tried to get into my bed when i told him he could sleep on the lounge it was so scary and creepy,yes we have to be very careful no matter how nice they are there is always a motive to me theres more than desperation here i think its very unstable to even make any comments like that when you don’t even know each other,its just not normal!!!even now at my age iv’e learn’t neer give your nmbr out to any guy you don’t really know!!!