Sep19
How Do I Avoid Clingy and Desperate Men?
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This may not seem like a problem to some women, but for me it is. When I am dating, I like to really take my time and get to know someone before I put any "name" on what we’re doing. It’s just having fun with someone, getting to know him, and see where things go. (I believe it’s called dating.)
There were a few men in the past several months that I liked. They were nice and I could see an eventual relationship coming of our dating. Here is the problem I’ve had…we go out once (maybe twice) and have a good time. There’s some kissing involved (but no sex). We make plans to go out again. Over the next several days he calls me constantly, starts talking about wanting a commitment from me, about our future together, and basically freaks me out from wanting to even go out with him again. (And yes, this has happened at least three times recently.) I understand liking me and wanting to spend time with me, and hoping that things will go further. What I don’t understand is why they get so obsessive.
I’m a divorced mother with two young children, but I am not looking for someone to "rescue" me. I do want to be in a relationship, with the right person, and I do want to be married again. However, I am not going to jump into something so quickly that I am blindsided. Are these men just so desperate that they don’t understand the fundamentals of dating? Any way I can avoid this in the future? It seems to be happening to me a lot recently.
Leah
Dear Leah,
Yeah, it’s a drag when a guy says he really likes you and makes a supreme effort to see you. I’m sure all the women who are waiting by the phone for their dates to call are feeling particularly bad for you.
I kid, Leah, because it’s about as ironic as any dating situation can be. We want people to be real, authentic, and emotionally available, yet we cringe and we flee when they are.
I wouldn’t say this is the height of hypocrisy, because I don’t know how you get when you really like a guy. Maybe you never get excited and let down your guard. But imagine you did. It would be a shame if a man distanced himself from you precisely BECAUSE you said you liked him.
What it really comes down to, Leah, is timing. You keep finding guys who are ready to take the plunge, you dazzle them on a date or two, and you listen to them start gabbing about rings and honeymoons. That has nothing to do with you, and everything to do with them. They want to be married soon. You do not. That’s perfectly fair. But imagine the shoe was on the other foot.
Let’s say that you were 39, single, and childless. You meet a great guy. It wouldn’t be too unreasonable for you to get excited about him being the future father of your children. Of course, if he’s already a father of two, and also recently divorced, he might not be ready to dive back into a committed relationship. That’s nobody’s fault. That’s simply two good people who may be compatible, but are not a good fit at the time.
I’m particularly glad you wrote this email because it’s useful to hear from a woman who just not that into HIM. It goes to show that, as abhorrent as we find the concept of “game-playing”, sometimes a little game playing is exactly what is necessary to keep the fire burning.
When someone makes himself too accessible, too willing to jump into a relationship, we question him. We wonder how anyone could like us this much this soon. We immediately devalue those people. But when we’re crazy about someone and show it, we want that person to reciprocate. Can’t we just be REAL with each other? Isn’t that what it’s all about?
Apparently, it’s not….
Continued on next page >>Filed Under Sex & Relationship Advice
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Bev Sep 19th 2007 at 09:57 am 1
I also had two men in the last year who were deperately trying to get me to commit sooner than seemed normal. They were controlling and basically losers in past relationships and life in general. At first flattered and then terrified, I ran away. My assessment was that they wanted a healthy normal person to validate their craziness. I knew tho that I would soon end up crazy too if I stayed. Had to head for more peaceful waters.
Stacey Sep 19th 2007 at 11:44 am 2
Leah, I am kind of in the same situation now. I am a divorced mother who is dating. I have met a really great man. We have been on two dates and we speak daily. We IMed each other for hours in the evenings, the week before we went on our first date. The issue is I have only known him for two weeks and I’m not ready to define our relationship. I am not planning on going out with anyone else right now, but I’m not mentally ready for that committment to someone either (not this fast). I have children to consider. I have my future to consider. It might end up being with this wonderful man, but I need time before I define…
The other night I fell asleep early and received a text in the morning from this man(in a joking mannner) asking what happened to me last night, and if I had been out on a hot date or if I was up late on messenger(because he had called to say good night) and I didn’t answer). I didn’t like even responding to that that text message (assuring him I had fallen asleep), I guess because I felt like I was already having to prove myself…. when I technically don’t owe him that answer…. It’s seems like it’s all in the timing. You will know when it’s right for you.
John Sep 19th 2007 at 12:15 pm 3
That’s a great answer Evan. I’ve always wondered what differences of opinons both men & women have on the definitions of these dating buzzwords like “needy” “clingy”, “desperate” and even “healthy”. The way I see it, it’s every one persons personal opinon as too what is “needy”, “clingy” etc. Why is it when a couple hits it off and
immediately starts seeing each other 4 times a week and talking twice every day and they’re both loving it neither is considered “needy,clingy, or desperate” ? But if one of the two doesn’t
agree with the pace or changes up the pace they cry “needy & clingy” if the other doesn’t follow !!
Or if it was someone they were more “into” they wouldn’t even think of complaining. Just like when I hear of people trotting out “I love you’s” at 4-6 weeks. I think, huh ???
On another note why isn’t wanting to be married considered “needy” ?
Why is it healthy to want to be with someone every day for the rest of your life ?? Sounds clingy to me.
As for you single moms. You barely have time to date 1 guy and try and have a relationship let alone more than 1. You have 1 night a week to see someone then complain when the guy who’d like to just see you goes out with other women because YOU don’t want to be exclusive !
You can’t have it both ways.
Hely Sep 19th 2007 at 03:58 pm 4
Hahahah great answer Evan! of course you’re the expert here!
And John i’d love to get to know u \.. how old are u by the way???
Leah Sep 19th 2007 at 03:59 pm 5
Yes, it is all in the timing. I’ve also come to the conclusion that these men were not the right men for me, or I would have been “that” into them too. I figure it’s better to end things then lead them on when I know it’s not going to last.
This last man in particular was what made me write. I had decided I didn’t want to see him again, so instead of being rude & ignore all his calls & emails, I responded to one of his emails & said that I didn’t want to see him again. I also gave him a reason. I thought I was being polite. He obviously did not, because he sent me a scathing email telling me I was immature, and a lot more. This response from him did nothing but confirm my thoughts on him, and I was glad I had decided not to see him again.
Stacey–I too hadn’t planned on seeing anyone else, but I wasn’t ready to define things either. He kept pushing the issue though, which made me see a personality trait in him that I really didn’t like.
John–I never said to anyone that I wanted to be exclusive. Yes, I am a single mother with little time to date, and I understand that. When he asked me if he should date anyone else & I said that wasn’t for me to say (after one date), he got upset with me.
John Sep 20th 2007 at 08:16 am 6
Leah & Stacy I didn’t mean to single you guys out as far as defining or asking for exclusivity etc…while being single moms. I just meant that in my dating experience (i’m 40ish btw Hely) of dating single moms I almost feel guilty for wanting to see them more than once a week because I know they don’t have the time. Thus causing me to ask myself “am I being too needy here because I want to spend time with this woman”?
What do the single moms expect men to do the other six nights when they’re unavailable and don’t want to be exclusive ?
Why are couples that have known each other for a week or 2 talking to each other EVERY day on the phone while at the same time emailing,texting anyway ? Obviously noone should be asking anyone anything about defining what “this” is after 1 or 2 dates . The point I was trying to make is it’s all everyones OWN opinion as to what’s too needy,clingy,desperate etc… and it’s usually ONE person in the “couple” that makes it and you know which one that is ?? The one that likes the other the least. Go figure.
Sure timing has something to do with it but so does a persons options, what they might be looking for or realistically have time for and be able to offer not to mention where they are emotional health wise.Which of course is an OPINION…LOL
Lisa Sep 23rd 2007 at 03:55 am 7
I think there’s a BIG difference in showing that you “are into” someone vs. pushing for a commitment after only 2-3 dates. I don’t see anything wrong with calling often to say “Hi, how’s your day going?” “Would you like to get together on Saturday?” That’s not necessarily clingy or desperate. But to start planning a future with someone you just met and don’t even really know yet? That IS desperate, and in a way, scary. I don’t think Evan’s blog really addressed that.
I understand that people who use dating sites are in the main hoping to find someone to have a future with. But surely not everyone equates a couple of dates as an instant relationship, do they? I haven’t tried dating sites yet, is there an expectation in this venue to move exceptionally fast? I wouldn’t consider myself in a relationship until I had spent an appreciable amount of time with someone (in person) for at least a month, minimum. Anything less seems like one of those quickie, short-lived junior high school “relationships”. Is this kind of thinking now considered old-fashioned? Ridiculously slow?
Truly I’m curious. I don’t want to join one of these sites if I were expected to be someone’s intended after only a handful of dates. Please comment.
Leah Sep 23rd 2007 at 04:02 pm 8
I totally agree with Lisa, and this is basically what I was getting at. This is the reason I didn’t want to see these particular men again–I saw what they were doing as a personality trait of being obsessive, which in my opinion, would most likely turn into being posessive. Telling someone you are going to *miss* them after a first date is totally different than saying you had a nice time and would like to see them again. How can you miss someone when you barely know them?
Dating » How Do I Avoid Clingy and Desperate Men? Sep 24th 2007 at 09:11 pm 9
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lyric Sep 25th 2007 at 08:01 am 10
I think it’s because these guys Leah dated aren’t exactly what she’s looking for..not her “type” and now that the guys are getting to “like” her and wants to get closer, she now thinks their clingy…lol
Actually I’d react the same way but if I’m so into the guy and he tells me that he misses me already even on our first date, I would be like so high up the heavens..lol
kk Sep 27th 2007 at 10:15 pm 11
Hmmm … interesting… Im a woman, 39, single and childless, and ONLY NOW do I really feel relaxed enough in dating to really enjoy it moment to moment and not be a needy freakish lady myself- basically, I have just begun liking mysef enough to feel healthy and nonobsessive and not needy. Yes I d like to be with someone but no, I’m not desperate and I don’t feel like I need a man to complete me in a needy way.
So here is a funny story that is apropos - I just stopped seeing a guy tonight who was too needy/ manipulative for me. On our first date he told me he had gone to a PSYCHIC who had told him he would meet me and we’d be married within a year- and he had just gotten out of a messy relationship with no real closure… On our second date, he said ” I wish you trusted me enough to let me come up to your place” - when I had a morning flight the next morning and I had to get up at 4 AM! Needless to say he didnt come up ( It was a total turnoff -creepy!) He didn’t like ” dating slowly” ( I.e. not immediate sex and reassurance and constant contact ) because it was ” torture” to ” play games”… Lets see, we had a third date when I bought movie tickets but he messed up his schedule and couldn’t come, then he got passive aggressively sulky when I used the ( nonrefundable ) tickets with a pal… So tonight, 60 seconds after we had the ‘let’s be friends’ talk he said ” Now we’re friends, I want to give you some feedback on your dating approach” to which I said ” No thanks I’m too vulnerable to hear that right now! ” ( dodging the passive agressive bullet!…) Then he told me I was the ” second woman who had dissed him that week “- some other woman he had slept with had also given him the air. I STILL didn’t rise to the bait ( I hadn’t known he was seeing anyone, obviously he was trying to get me going) but whoah ! All that anger and manipulation and acting out and unresolved feeling just sealed for me that he wasn’t someone who it was wise to date.I love my life, I love myself, I love men in general and people too ( I know, Im a dork!) and I feel like I have so much more to offer from sayng NO THANKS to the needy guys… so trust your gut, what underlies the neediness is anger, forget it.
I guess the difference between unhealthy neediness and falling in love is subjective, one man’s meat is another poison, but IMHOP you should not have to be answering to someone too soon, or feel guilty for not assuaging some dudes’s random insecurities,he should deal with them on his own in early dating, othwerwise its a HUGE RED FLAG for me. I feel like he is then putting emotional stuff on me he hasn’t dealt with himself- and underneath that is the rage, yikes.
If it feel like some big obligation and not fun after just 3- 4 dates, then what is the point, aren’t we supposed to enjoy getting to know each other? Dont get me wrong I love, adore, pamper and dote upon the men I love, but If I start getting that clammy sweaty icky needy ” be my mommy” vibe too early on I run for the hills! Even if I really LIKED a guy and he told me he missed me after one date - it would creep me out and make me like him MUCH LESS!
Ryan H Sep 30th 2007 at 01:33 am 12
The truth is ladies these types of men are insecure and lonely individuals who just want sex and a very high chance a lot of them will do a disappearing act after. The reason you went on these first couple dates is the high probability that you told them you had kids and they accepted that fact AND Also the obvious reason you were interested in them in the first place. But what you might not know is what their motives are. Are they genuine in what they say? Do they ask probing questions to get to really know you or are they just playing mind tricks to get you in bed. Women like to be worked for to feel that exclusiveness but the truth these men don’t have enough experience to understand that. They obviously are not good in the dating arena or understanding women. It’s like rewarding a dog a treat for doing nothing but bark.
Jessica Jan 11th 2008 at 01:37 am 13
I agreed with Evan’s post and also, what many of you had to say. I also think many or all of these things apply to women who come off as to needy or clingy as well. Timing and how you feel about the other person (not how you think you SHOULD feel) make a huge difference in how you perceive them and their actions. But I also think you can look at their actions in terms of kind and degree. One is what types of behaviors just plain don’t work for you - kind. The other is what behaviors to what degree don’t work for you, creep you out or make you feel pressured or what-have-you. Often, both of these come into play.
When a person pursues you pretty relentlessly and doesn’t seem to be taking into account what you want or how you feel, then you have to wonder if they came into it with a very strong personal (and maybe unintentional, but still real) agenda or goal. And also, likely some major insecurities.
I think I have been needy to some degree and I have certainly dated a couple of men who were needy to the point that it canceled out their actually truly being “nice.” This would be the guy who is “too nice”. Or the woman.
There is an awesome article I read after dating a guy like this for only about a week - about Nice Guys often being losers. Yes, sounds very harsh, but the article made some really well-thought-out points that clarified a great deal for me - both about nice guys and about being careful not to “be too nice” myself in an effort to connect or validate myself. Here is the link if anyone wants to take a look - actually isn’t a rant despite what the url says.
http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml.
This guy immediately acted like we were a couple. Actually asked me how many guys had gone out with on Match … and asked me to not date anyone else before the first of only two dates. Also asked if I already had a hot date when I turned him down for Friday night - Truth was, it was too soon for me. He seemed wonderful - always deferring to me, not even picking his own conversation topics. Though I couldn’t stand that. Who wants to not have a real give and take. And all that.
What this article said is that “Nice guys” don’t have an opinion. Or they don’t express it. They always defer to you, but then you have to take all the responsibility if you made “the wrong choice” or picked something less than satisfactory. They also often come on too strong due to an insecurity and a need for you to think they are the cat’s meow, not because they are truly into you that lightning fast. How the hell can they be that into you if they don’t know you yet? This holds true for women like that as well.
He decided he was going to wash my car after one date. He also used 7 exclamation points in one email - without an “I Love You!”, “Damn!”, “Ouch!”, “Curses, foiled again!” or a “Bif, Bam, Boom!” in site. I.e, nothing that was actually an exclamation that required such punctuation. I initially thought this meant he was either overly dramatic or immature. It turned out to be both.
But I felt guilty about not giving him two chances despite red flags all over the place that he wasn’t right for me. These I expressed to friends and family from the get-go and they too thought I was too picky : ) - AT FIRST ; ) They thought my concern over the exclamation points was nuts. And people thought I should be less concerned since he wasn’t being an out and out jerk. Though he did criticize really little stuff like the crust on our pizza and the salt not being on the actual soft pretzel at the movies. And told me repeatedly how crappy and unsafe my aptmt. was - Yet, I pay for it myself whereas he had no job and had his rent at 36 paid for someone else. He wasn’t concerned about my safety - he wanted to make where he lived look better in comparison.
The guy mentioned in this letter may have very genuine intentions - it sounds like he probably does or he has a lot of unresolved personal issues that cause him to do a full court press as soon as he meets a potential mate. And not see the warning signs on her end.
This is what I believe happened in my situation and I just bit the bullet and wrote him an email and made it sound like he was just great the way he is and made it sound like it was my personal issues holding me back. I didn’t give real reasons, but if I did make any mention - they didn’t have to do with him. And they weren’t anything he could really refute. I didn’t care for the email I got back making it sound like I was a few fibers short of a basket-case, but hey - it didn’t diminish his self worth, it didn’t lead him on, and it got me out of a situation that was driving me batshit in the nicest way.
The old me would have prolonged it because he was a “nice guy”. He was too nice. Like me baking cookies from scratch for a guy on a first date too nice : ) Part of it is the how someone is nice to you, but an even BIGGER part to me is the WHY. And the timing. If you find yourself having to frequently justify why you aren’t comfortable with someone’s actions, then something is off.
How you feel is how you feel and there are usually ways to be fair to the other person but still extricate yourself if it isn’t working for you. Unless he or she is a true stalker - then must seriously proceed with caution and assume you can’t rationalize how they must be thinking.
I do agree with Evan about the rational conversation - rather than just dropping the guy. But think you have to truly evaluate the situation, the person, and how likely he is to hear what you have to say and truly considerate it versus what he has in his head and heart already. Same goes for women who get too close or too involved too fast. TOO meaning for the other person in the equation. When is too much too much? When it is too much for you.
Jessica Jan 11th 2008 at 02:16 am 14
Re: my previous post…
The aforementioned blind date was probably also a nice guy in the good sense of the word, but was “Too nice” for me in ways that were very specific. Ways that I could articulate in both thoughts and feelings that did not make me as happy to speak with him or be in his presence as he said he felt about me. But he also told me he’d rather be with someone and not be that happy than to be alone. So I do think he had set a course for action that had more to do with what he was determined to have - with someone - than with me. It was right to let him go - for him as much as for me. Just wanted to clarify that I was not meaning to use a public forum/dating advice site to bitch about him or try to make him look bad. I learned from this and hope someone else might too.
Mattie Jan 26th 2008 at 06:02 am 15
Interesting posts from everybody - and this is as much a problem to women as it is to men, it seems.
As Jessica correctly intimates, the basis of all this is wishful thinking (the power of which should never be under-estimated: one thing old Sigmund got right!). The giveaway in her story is her would-be partner’s confession that he fears being alone. Such a fear leads to desperation, which in turn results in clingy behaviour, which as many others in this string conclude, means ‘too much, too soon.’
And Jessica’s right: he probably is a very nice man - as kind and considerate as she herself sounds, as her manner of divesting herself of him was certainly impeccable in these terms. But she is equally correct in listening to her gut reactions, which were warning her off him. These were telling her that this particular man wasn’t interested in Jessica; just the idea of her that his longing for love had formulated. And, sooner or later, disillusion would set in as he realised the real woman wouldn’t fit the narrow blissed-out confines of his mental construct … and then what?
Hm. Food for thought: been there, done that - and had it all done to me, to boot! Thank you, Evan and co.
Mattiex
Sarah Mar 23rd 2008 at 05:32 pm 16
And traditionally aren’t women suppose to be the clingy ones? I’ve never been in a serious relationship (it’s ok though, I’m only 17) because every time a guys liked me he gets obsessive. They text you 24/7, want to know what you’re doing every minute and want to go out all the time. It’s worse if you’re a fierce free spirit like me, an ENFP and a Type 7 Enthusiast. We have a perhaps irrational fear of being tied down. If you go out with this clingy person, they’ll think you like them back as much as you like them and I see it as getting stuck in a web.
Why are men so clingy these days? My friend can’t do anything without her boyfriend because he’s clingy and obsessive and jealous. People my age in relationships spend every minute with their boyfriends, sometimes living with them like my friend. And then like my other friend, whose relationship with her boyfriend ended because they got sick of eachother. Well go figure. If people gave eachother lots of space and separate time they wouldn’t get sick of eachother and be much happier. It comes down to the fact that people don’t trust eachother. They worry that their spouse is cheating on them or something if they aren’t under their constant watchful eye. But without trust there’s no love so these relationships are so fake.
Janice Jun 4th 2008 at 07:20 pm 17
Sarah:
At 17, you have more insight than most of us. You are spot-on about trust issues. Good luck to you as you continue to grow from a young lady to a wise and lovely lady!
starthrower68 Jan 3rd 2009 at 12:43 pm 18
Hmmmm, makes one wonder if all this fear of being seen as needy and clingly will lead to people never being able to be themselves and being honest about their feelings. A friend from work has set me up with her brother; she’s already sent up an initial red flag by telling me he can’t stand to be without a woman. Meanwhile, there was someone special to me; I was honest that I felt a connection, and that I had hoped something would happen but I was also honest that I was working on a degree, raising kids, etc. Evidently, even that was too much. We can’t win for losing, can we?