Sep12
How To Guarantee A Guy Calls You After Sex
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A reader throws my words back at me to get clarity on my Top Online Dating Mistake: thinking your great date actually meant something…
Hi Evan,
To explain why a great date doesn’t necessarily mean anything to men, you wrote: "Instead of thinking in terms of black and white (He likes me/he doesn’t like me), think in terms of grey. Isn’t it possible that a guy can be out, enjoying your company, being thoughtful, telling you you’re beautiful, kissing you at the end of the night, and never call you again?"
I guess it’s possible, theoretically. I am not a man, so it’s difficult for me to understand. But why would a guy do that? For example, if I like a guy, and I had a good time on a date, I’d like to see him again. I think about it in 2nd grade terms, "I like a person, I would like to see them again. I don’t like a person, I don’t want to see them again" That applies to all people - men, women, romantic or platonic.
You also wrote: "All you can do as a woman is not make the date "mean" something, because 50% of the time, as you can probably see, it doesn’t mean a thing to him…"
Yeah, I think that’s an assumption. I, personally, cannot SEE that it doesn’t mean a thing to him, like I can’t differentiate. When do things start meaning to a man?
So what distinguishes when a guy goes on a date, has a good time, but is just "in the moment, and doesn’t call me back, versus a guy who had a good time with me and then calls me back? Is this "in the moment" feeling premeditated, i.e. the guy knows this date isn’t going to be serious, before the date occurs? Or does the "in the moment" feeling occur during the process of the date, which is dependent on the woman and on a date itself? So tell me about your experiences. How do you approach this dating, "in the moment" situtation? I am just trying to understand the psyche.
Maybe it’s just me, but all interactions with people mean something to me. I feel that’s the respect I should give to another person. And if they don’t mean anything to me, then it’s because I don’t want to interact with that person.
Any clarification of this idea would be very helpful.
Jean
Dear Jean,
I’m going to drop the dating coach bit for a second and just be a guy.
When I was dating prolifically, I’d be going out with two or three women at a time. And every single time I went out, I did two things:
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- I tried to be the best date I possibly could. I’d call, email, express interest, plan a good date, show up on time, etc.
- I tried to make her want me really badly. I’d listen, I’d lean in, I’d flirt, I’d compliment her.
In short, I wanted every single date to feel good about me, so I would have the option of going out with her again. Sometimes, we’d hug goodbye. Other times, we’d drunkenly go back to her place. But no matter what, I was looking to keep my options open, have fun, and sometimes get a little action. And yes, I was always in pursuit of a long-term relationship. I just didn’t want to deprive myself entirely of sexual activity until I fell in love.
By the way, whether you agree or not, I considered myself a NICE guy. I slept with very few people, I never said, “I love you” and I rarely kept a physical relationship going beyond a few weeks, if I felt it was headed nowhere.
To me, I felt like I was acting with integrity. To a woman who woke up next to me after a first date and thought that we were “in a relationship”, I can see how she felt differently….
Continued on next page >>Filed Under Dating Tips & Advice, Sex & Relationship Advice
Read More...
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- What To Do When the Guy You’re Seeing Will Not Commit
- What to Do When The Relationship’s Slipping Away
- I Think Sex Is Wrong Outside Marriage. Why Won’t Anyone Date Me?
Emma Sep 12th 2007 at 10:18 am 1
Evan, stop being so freaking reductive. The “you” in that situation could be the guy I just broke up with, who started seeing a future with me even though we had discussed that our relationship was what it was (friendship, sex, and yes, love, but not a future), and the “men” in that situation could be me. Actually, that’s being reductive. I don’t look for sex and find love or look for love and find sex. I look for whatever I can get, and get whatever end up with. I have sex just because I want to sometimes, and sometimes I’ll fall in love with that stranger. I become friends with people and lay in wait for years because I love them (or just want them). My longest relationship (2 years) was with a man who I was casually sleeping with, and we both accidentally fell in love with each other. This took 6 months for us to admit, because it shocked us so much. You need to start using some qualifiers in your columns: MOST women.
Evan Marc Katz Sep 12th 2007 at 10:37 am 2
Yes, MOST women, Emma.
JimmyE Sep 12th 2007 at 11:03 am 3
I agree with Evan about sex affecting men’s behaviour, but I think you should also consider how the expectancy of being the pursuer will cause some men to act keener then we might be in the early stages of a relationship.
On the whole we’re expected to initiate contact, ask women out and follow up after a good date. I don’t mind this, but it does mean there isn’t much space for contemplation if you’re sitting on the fence.
In my experience, women tend to ask themselves if a relationship has potential after one or two dates, whereas a man will probably wait for a few dates and possibly sex before being similarily far-sighted
Jules Sep 12th 2007 at 11:14 am 4
This post comes at a very interesting time for me. I have been on about 6 dates with this guy over the past month. While we have hooked up, I have held back from sleeping with him. The big thing that is holding me back is that I don’t want to give it up only to have my guy pull a disappearing act.
We’ve talked about sleeping together and I told him that I wasn’t ready yet for a few reasons. One being what I just stated above. But another is that I don’t want to start having certain expectations once it does happen. I would want to see him more often that the twice a week dates we’ve been having. I would want him to do more than just text me almost every day. I would want to feel secure that this isn’t going to be just a casual thing.
I don’t want to want all of those things, so that’s why I’ve chosen to wait. I think he understands, but we shall see. Like Evan states, I am going to judge my guy on his actions and not by what he says. All of his “I miss you” texts mean nothing if he’s not actually making plans to see me.
Hadley Paige Sep 12th 2007 at 11:22 am 5
The best way to get a guy to call you back after you have had sex with him is to leave a message on his machine that you would like to work on your blowjob technique and would he help.
Calling back is not the goal per se is it? The goal is to for the guy to call back because he is truly interested in you for an LTR.
For that I don’t have an answer. You can’t make it happen. If he is truly into you he will call. If not don’t force it.
Camilla Sep 12th 2007 at 12:25 pm 6
Jean wrote: “Maybe it’s just me, but all interactions with people mean something to me. I feel that’s the respect I should give to another person. And if they don’t mean anything to me, then it’s because I don’t want to interact with that person.”
I completely disagree. To me, a sign of respect is to not be so judgemental. A “you’re in or you’re out” decision made after a couple dates or sex seems harsh, not respectful.
My hunch is that Jean is hoping to avoid the unknowing anxiety of not knowing where she stands. So if you’re the type of person who is uncomfortable with “maybe” then you’ve got your answer. Unless it’s a clearcut yes, then take it as a no.
I think it’s possible to be absolutely respectful, genuine, and enjoy dating (including sex) without it having to be an LTR. It’s not fair to say than anything less is manipulation/deceit/disrespect. Lighten up! That, or don’t sleep with people who aren’t already committed to you.
Shari Sep 13th 2007 at 03:21 pm 7
What do you make of men who make the second date before you part after the first, and then make all kinds of excuses to not keep that second date? I can’t tell you how long that happened to me before I started disallowing second date requests until he went home, thought about it, and decided he really wanted to go out wiht me. Doesn’t that blow the theory of how quickly he follows up for another date out the window? Or is is just me?
JimmyE Sep 13th 2007 at 11:59 pm 8
Shari. I used to try and arrange dates at the end of the evening. I stopped because the answer was ALWAYS yes, even though many backed out before the agreed date. I appreciate this. People need time to mull over a date in private. People don’t like rejecting a stranger face to face. People like to keep their options open.
Far from contradicting Evan’s theory, so experience actually supports it. You can’t follow up on a date, whilst your still on the date. Its nice if someone wants to arrange plans at the end of a date, but i’d take any promises with a hefty grain of salt until their confirmed at least 24 hours later.
Adam Sep 14th 2007 at 06:42 pm 9
I agree with most of what you wrote here…but there are exceptions. I’m a man and I definitely do not sleep with someone I’m not interested in. I don’t ever sleep around and I’m generally looking for love first, not sex. I know it’s rare to find a guy who feels that way but nonetheless…here I am…so we are out here…but I would agree that I’m probably in the 1 percentile on that one.
Shari Sep 15th 2007 at 05:24 am 10
JimmyE - I think I could agree with what you said about rejection in context to those things that happened to me, but I wasn’t the one asking them, and they weren’t the ones saying “yes” then backing out one me. They were the ones asking me. My conclusion is that, at that time, I was their best option for next Saturday night - or whenever the date may have been. But then a better option came to them and they traded up. Quite a few of these guys who broke second dates before they happened would contact me a few weeks later and ask for that second date again. I didn’t say yes, just agreed with whatever their reason had been for breaking the second date - you’re right, there is no chemistry, there is no spark, I didn’t think about you constantly while we were apart - or whatever.
In my deduction I blame the Internet for this and not a gender, or even personality type. There are too many options and some people - not going to qualify this to guys or girls - don’t want to tie themselves to this person who seems okay, when someone else comes around who might be better.
Mary Sep 15th 2007 at 07:34 am 11
Hey Adam-
Where do you live?
Mel Sep 21st 2007 at 05:59 pm 12
I went on a “great date” after some marathon phone conversations with this guy. We hit it off great on the phone, so we were excited to meet each other, and we seemed to hit it off great in person, too. We did not sleep together that night, though we certainly fooled around quite a bit, and knew we both wanted each other. He called the next day, and 2 days after that. On that 2nd phone call, we didn’t make plans for the weekend (it was only Monday) but I just (wrongly, apparently) assumed it was understood we would be together that next weekend. When we got off the phone he said we’d speak during that week. I never heard from him again! I would have been much more prepared if I hadn’t heard from him after the night we went out, but c’mon, guys, why 2 more phone calls and then the vaporizing act? He still goes online, I have seen him. I did take that one personally at first, but over the course of the last 2 weeks came to realize it has nothing to do with me at all and everything to do with his issues. Still, it is frustrating.
kk Sep 27th 2007 at 10:28 pm 13
If I just want sex, I have sex. If I want a LTR , I hold off on the sex until I feel confident we are going somewhere. At least that’s the new leaf I’m turning over! This is after being dumped with no warning 8 weeks into a relationship with someone I met online— and who I saw every weekend- and talked to a lot …I realized that I’m just sick of making myself that vulnerable before I even know the person properly.. This means less sex , but less annoyance and heartbreak, and, lets face it, less random squalor too! I’m 12 weeks or so into the new regime, lets see how it goes!
Geek Dating Mar 6th 2008 at 01:31 am 14
I think some of you are underestimating most men. Sure there will always be the odd sleaze bag who is only after sex, but the majority of decent guys view sex as a bonus to a relationship, not the be all and end all.
Colette Jun 9th 2008 at 08:30 pm 15
I have to appreciate the brutal honesty of Evan’s response. Evan, I recognize that you’ve changed and I think by publishing the truth you’re doing a great service.
Apparently there are a few girls capable of what Evan says guys do, but my guess is only a very very few, and half of those girls are lying to themselves. That’s what makes the whole idea so successful. There may actually only be a smallish portion of men who act this way, but they are quite active and are a real factor in the prolific dating scene of the 21st century. I happen to think there are plenty of guys who don’t think that just dating for the sake of sexual activity is okay if it’s going to hurt someone’s feelings… they just don’t need to date as often because they actually want to get to know that first awesome girl they take out. This is really important to point out, because otherwise a girl could come away from this post feeling pretty bleak about the goodness of most men.
What Evan is saying is that on one hand you have girls, and sometimes guys too, who are having a fabulous time on a date because they are so excited that they’ve finally met someone who’s smart, funny, polite, sexy, a good listener, and who would be a great person to have around in life; while on the other hand you have some guys (and a very very few girls) who are having just as much of a fabulous time, and seem to be just as giddy, for the simple reason that they see a decent likelihood of having sex, maybe even that night. Apparently the likelihood of having sex is so intoxicating that the mere thought makes everything that happens that evening just delightful. These guys tell themselves that they are not being shallow because if the girl puts out for a few months without expecting to hear from him very often, he is reserving the right eventually to have feelings for her – this is called the “grey” area. This is also called “just being a guy.”
Part of me can’t decide if I – a single girl looking for a real connection – really want to know this. The next time I’m out with an attractive guy who is just effortlessly beaming at every word I say, I’ll have the insider’s knowledge not to take this necessarily as a special moment in my life. Sure, it could be that he feels he’s found his new best friend. It could also be that he’s just sublimely psyched to get laid. If the prospect is that all-consuming, then I guess I can see why it would take no pretending at all to display such excitement.
Evan mentions that guys and girls seem to be having a lot more sex with strangers. Call me crazy, but that doesn’t seem like such a good thing. I think there are a lot of fair reasons for it – girls are more liberated and there’s less stigma for a woman to be sexually active (and amen to that). Also, people are waiting much longer to get married, which means a lot more time to figure out what they’re looking for in and out of bed. It also means a lot more time and a lot more women with which men can practice the art of the delightfully meaningless date. I just don’t think many women have caught up with that idea yet – after all, the pill has only been around for about 50 years. Before then, we couldn’t afford to take the risk of falling for meaningless delight. That’s nice that now we can control the physical risks of sex with someone who’s on the way out the door – but we still need to account for the emotional risks, which are much more real for women than men (read up on oxytocin, girls). Maybe men would have to be more grounded in what they expect out of a date if the likelihood of sex with no strings wasn’t so high, and if women would wise up and get back to the practice of not hooking up with guys they might fall for unless they’ve gotten some commitment (in other words, Evan’s readership needs to skyrocket). This doesn’t mean undoing the feminist movement and saying no to sex, it just means taking 30 seconds to clarify that neither of the two involved will be seeing other people.
Meanwhile, I think it would be an impressive next step in the evolutionary process if these sex-addicted guys would leave their caves and join modern men who see women as fellow modern human beings and not just heartless pairs of boobs. And to the nice guys who get this already: stop high-fiving your buddy who just bagged the nice cute girl who adores him. He’s a prick. You know you don’t want to be him. Maybe you should tell him so.