Dec06
I Think Sex Is Wrong Outside Marriage. Why Won’t Anyone Date Me?
Dear Evan,
I keep losing relationships when I say that sex isn’t right outside of a marriage. I used to think that women have more self-control than men, but have since realized that we are all humans.
Is it ever possible to have a year-long relationship without sex? Even the most conservative girl I’ve met gets heavy on that after a while. I feel pressured. They ask questions like "will we be doing that (whatever is the action in the movies) in future?"
I think maybe I’m the problem. I’ve been called frigid, gay (am not), etc.
There’s so much more to life than sex, right? Maybe I should look for intelligent scientists.
Jon
Dear Jon,
You sound a bit like the guy who insists on buying flowers for women on first dates. He seems like a really nice guy, but what he doesn’t get is that his views are out of step with the majority of society.
So it’s not a matter of whether he’s right or wrong; it’s a matter of whether his behavior is effective or ineffective.
When you lead your question with “I keep losing relationships when I say that sex isn’t right outside of a marriage”, you make it abundantly clear that your moral stance is quite ineffective. That doesn’t make you wrong. That makes your choice a highly questionable one as far as most women are concerned.
And, as I am wont to do, I’m going to use this platform to ask readers to consider if they have any hard-wired minority beliefs that prevent them from making a connection. Again, I’m not a moralist; I’m a pragmatist. Just because a guy tells me that his mullet hairstyle is the purest expression of how he likes to look, doesn’t mean that wearing his mullet in his online dating photo will help him woo the ladies.
Just because a guy tells me that his mullet hairstyle is the purest expression of how he likes to look, doesn’t mean that wearing his mullet in his online dating photo will help him woo the ladies.
Lest you think I’m joking – that’s a true story. I had a client four years ago who was a grown-up 70’s rocker who teaches guitar lessons. Nice man. Very passionate. But in his insistence on “being himself”, he pretty much eliminated every woman who tossed her AquaNet out the window in 1989. Same goes for my Jewish client who loved his dreadlocks, and was surprised he didn’t get much attention on JDate. Somehow he was shocked that all the Ivy League women who want to marry doctors and lawyers weren’t flocking to his unwashed nest of hair. Doesn’t mean he’s a bad guy – it just means he had to make some tough choices: Keep the hair and lose the women. Or lose the hair and get the women.
Since I’m not a psychologist, I’m not gonna worry in this space about WHY you’d opt for abstinence. That’s between you and your clergyman. All I can say is that the number of people aboard the no-sex train is increasingly small. So as I see it, you have two choices:
Keep beating the drum that says sex is wrong outside of marriage and continue to wonder why most women keep running away, OR:
Get off your moral high horse and start sexually servicing these women the way they want to be serviced.
If not, someone else will. I guarantee that.
Filed Under Sex & Relationship Advice
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Steve Dec 6th 2007 at 09:37 am 1
Jon, when I read the title to this article my first thought was “duh”.
Evan is right, you are simply out of step with what most people are looking for.
I don’t think you are on a religious high horse. If abstinence before marriage is important to you I think it is important to stay true to what you think is right. However, you have to accept the consequences of it making dating MUCH harder for you.
It might also help to think about how you tell women your views.
Saying that you think “sex before marriage is wrong” may simply be stating your personal preference to you, but to your dates who have had and want premarital sex it may come off as an offensive moral indictment of them.
The wording you choose might also make your dates assume you conservative and rigid about other issues, eventhough you might not be.
Steve Dec 6th 2007 at 09:41 am 2
Evan I had to laugh at your comments about mullets. I got rid of mine a long time ago, but I still think it is one of the better looking mens haircuts. If it ever comes back into fashion I am there.
Steve Dec 6th 2007 at 09:46 am 3
In regards to Evan’s client who insisted on keeping his mullet haircut because he was just being himself, my answer to that is the question
Is your self in a static, forever unchanging state?
There was a time before mullets when this man had another haircut…wasn’t he being himself then? If he finds something new he likes will he eschew it because it doesn’t fit with who he used to be?
I only mention this because I had similar hangups with some dating baggage.
Who we are is not static.
The way I see it, if I try something new and keep doing it only because it gets me dates then I am not being myself. However, if I try something new to get more dates and I keep doing it because I like it, then I am being myself.
christine Dec 6th 2007 at 09:59 am 4
i would not date a guy who won’t have sex. i think sex is important and fun. lol
ABF Dec 6th 2007 at 10:31 am 5
The bottom line is: What is more important to you? If you are choosing to abstain from pre-marital sex because of moral/religous reasons then that is going to shrink your dating pool. If that is the case, then you need to be proactive in finding groups/websites that cater to this life choice. If you happen to find yourself dating a woman whose views are different it doesn’t mean that the relationship won’t work out in the long run. However, in those situations you need to be able to clearly explain why this position is important to you (and of course don’t bring it up until you have proceeded beyond merely dating) and be prepared for potential rejection.
kat g Dec 6th 2007 at 10:41 am 6
Jon-
There must be a Rules girl out there with your name on her. The book sold like hotcakes, so either a majority of the books’ readers are buying The Rules and promptly discarding the lessons contained therein, or you’ll find at least a few women who “live” by the book and are willing to practice red hot abstinence with you.
thomas Dec 6th 2007 at 11:05 am 7
Unfortunately, what worked for our moms and dads way back when simply does not hold true today. The worse thing we can do is listen to the ethics that our parents taught us. Altho well intentioned and sure it worked in the 1930’s, those ethics simply do not apply to this age’s society. Adapt or break under the force of the winds of change.
Craig Dec 6th 2007 at 11:29 am 8
The answer to the question Jon poses is simple. No one he’s approached with his views will date him because he has yet to approach someone who agrees with those views. Doesn’t make him wrong or right per se, just in a vast minority. Most of us want to test drive the vehicle before we buy it, ya dig?
The solution: pursue only those women outside the mainstream who agree with your views. I’m sure there are dating sites, meet-up groups, or other resources that can lead you in the right direction. Religious or socially conservative groups are your best bet. Perhaps you can get involved with the Republican party - they preach “family values” and cater to the religious/social right, so maybe you can find some chicks who won’t give it up before marriage in those circles.
BeenThruTheWars Dec 6th 2007 at 12:35 pm 9
Jon, PLEASE don’t compromise your most precious moral values in order to get dates! You will instantly become “less” of who you are at your core if this issue is extremely meaningful to you. And I guarantee no women wants “less of a man” in any way.
As long as you reassure the women you date you find them sexually attractive, and that you aren’t putting yourself in overly tempting situations with them because of your moral beliefs, NOT because of them being unsexy or because you are a weirdo or gay or whatever, I bet you’ll have better luck with relationships taking their proper course.
I know half a dozen “hard core” Christian women with the exact same lament as you! Some of them are absolute knockouts, but they are waiting until marriage to have sex, and that is that. End of discussion. One woman I know is 32, blonde, gorgeous — and absolutely committed to her faith and morals. Yes, she is having a hard time finding a husband, but guess what: when she finds one, he’s going to share her outlook on a great many things, and their wedding night will be super special. She only dates within her faith and fully accepts that it will take her longer to get married, and she is cool with that.
I have been in too many relationships (before my current marriage) where I had to give up huge pieces of myself in order to stay with a certain man, and THAT is wrong, wrong, wrong in my opinion. If chastity truly is a dealbreaker for you, then stick to your guns. If I’d stuck to mine about my own supposed dealbreakers (”If he cheats on me I will leave him” for instance, or “No alcoholics”), I wouldn’t have wasted approximately a decade of my life banging my head against a wall, not to mention risking HIV infection or being killed in an accident when my man was sleeping around on me or driving under the influence and I decided to keep my mouth shut rather than start another a fight. I can only believe “someone up there” was looking out for me during those times as I finally emerged unscathed, sadder, wiser, and ready to finally have my own little internal “Showdown at the Okay Corral” about what I was willing to put up with or walk away from.
Jon, I’m sure I’ll get plenty of crap for this from the other bloggers, but I say hold out for what makes you, YOU.
jane Dec 6th 2007 at 02:27 pm 10
Get off your moral high horse and start sexually servicing these women the way they want to be serviced.
If not, someone else will. I guarantee that.
Okay, if a man chooses to not engage in premarital sex that’s his choice although, it tends to sound like a moral judgment based on religious belief. However, the above snip from Evan’s response is an extremely poor choice of words, it positively reeks! Service?? When did sex, as an integral part of dating and pursuing an exclusive relationship, become become an act of service - to women? That may be Evan’s perception - why he has sex with women - however the conclusion deftly includes all other men in the category of perceiving sex as a service to women. Come on Evan tell us what you really think about women?
Jane
P.S. I wonder if Evan’s girlfriend is content to know that sex isn’t about physical gratification and intimate sharing, it’s simply about her being serviced?
Jane
Zeus Dec 6th 2007 at 03:14 pm 11
Jon-
My best advice to you is to stay true to your own values. There are women out there that share the same values that you do (albeit they would be hard to find nowadays).
Listen to your own heart, not people on the Internet.
If people think you’re square or strange for the values you have, perhaps you’ll have better luck meeting the right girl in your church.
My recommendation is, don’t sell out. If you have to rearrange your own values for some other girl, is she really worth it?
Markus Dec 6th 2007 at 03:57 pm 12
Jon,
C’mon man. God really doesn’t want you to have sex before a lifelong commitment? I have no problem with waiting for someone you’re really into or something but pretty much no one is going to fall for you unless you lay some pipe. Have standards and all but be realistic. ALL THAT SAID, if that is what you MUST do, there are dating sites for Catholics and Fundamentalists (not to equate the 2) where you might be able to find someone of your mindset. Good luck.
hunter Dec 6th 2007 at 05:07 pm 13
…some women, mostly mature,(they have lost their hormones) that have been hurt in previous relationships, they will go without sex ’till you marry them….
Nan Dec 6th 2007 at 06:00 pm 14
Jon,
Both Evan & Steve are right. In your question to Evan you state, ” I used to think that women have more self-control than men, but have since realized that we are all humans.” I don’t know how you express your views to the women you date but that sounds fairly judgmental whether you mean it to or not. Of course you have a right to your beliefs, but as Steve said you might want to look at how you express them as that can be even more off-putting than the belief itself. I can tell you that if, a man I had just met told me or I read in a profile online that “sex outside of marriage is wrong” I would blow him off. Because I have nothing but a brief snapshot to go on the statement, whether or not you realize it, as Steve said it implies a moral indictment of women who have had premarital sex.
I think it’s great that you have a set of values that are important to you. But I can also tell you that as a woman I don’t know that I would be able to cope with it. The simple fact of the matter is that more and more women are sexually active these days.
A-L Dec 6th 2007 at 07:31 pm 15
I agree with Steve’s first post about Jon’s choice of wording in revealing his feelings about premarital sex. Are you talking about how you want to live your own life (I want to abstain from sex before marriage), or how everyone should live life (Sex is wrong outside of marriage. Period.)?
I frequently come across this issue because I’m in the minority along with Jon. I don’t intend to have sex until I’m married, but when I reveal this to anyone, in any context, I always state that it’s a personal decision for me, and not a judgement on everybody else. I’ve also tried to make it clear prior to that conversation that I’m very open-minded about most issues. This actually causes problems because most people who abstain from premarital sex are very conservative religously and politically, and I’m a liberal. And the liberals all believe in having sex before marriage. Alas!
Tyciol Dec 6th 2007 at 10:21 pm 16
Hm, the self is certainly not static and unchanging. What mullet guy probably meant was that he still liked mullets and wouldn’t do something he didn’t want just to score with women. I can relate to that. Getting sex at all costs isn’t everyone’s top priority. I was a mullet afficianado for a long time, though I grew the front long too in the past two years so now it’s all long like Fabio, heh.
I basically don’t think sex before marriage is not immoral, because I don’t really believe in marriage. I believe in connections, and that it probably makes sex better if you connect on some other level first so that it reinforces that connection in addition to whatever sexual connection you’re making. That being said, I’m an abstinent virgin, lol, but not due to religious marriage-related things.
One of Kind Dec 6th 2007 at 11:06 pm 17
I don’t believe in sex before marriage because I want to give my husband something reserved just for him, a bond between only him and me. At 37 years of age, I’ve waited this long to lose my virginity and hope that my wait is at least half over! If I lose a guy because he doesn’t respect my core value, that’s okay. I’m not desperate or willing to settle.
Evan Marc Katz Dec 7th 2007 at 12:31 am 18
Thanks to everyone for your responses - even you, Jane. I would encourage anyone who dissented to reread Jon’s email. He said that he’s “losing relationships” and that even “the most conservative girl” starts putting pressure on him to have sex. He’s asking for feedback that’s going to give him some clarity on his issue.
Thus, those telling him to keep holding out are willfully (and foolishly) ignoring Ben Franklin’s maxim, “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”
The results: women are leaving him.
Your advice: keep up the good work! stay true to yourself!
Once again: I’ve got no problem with Jon or with sexual abstinence. But if his SOLE problem is that women leave him because he won’t have sex, he’s got two choices: change or do the same thing. If he does the same thing, he has to take responsibility for the fact that it may be a very very long time until he meets *a* girl who gets him, much less *the* girl who gets him…
Selena Dec 7th 2007 at 04:59 am 19
For me, sex is too important in a relationship to wait until marriage, to “see how it goes”. Waaay, too much of a gamble. Finding out if you are sexually compatible is part of getting to know each other. A fun part, ideally.
If I found myself dating someone who insisted on waiting until marriage to have sex, I would theorize he had a low drive, sexual issues, or both. I wouldn’t be willing to yoke myself to such a person.
Since there are people out there that share the same convictions as Jon, joining church singles groups, of different, but complementary churches, would seem the most efficeint way to go.
A-L Dec 7th 2007 at 05:06 am 20
There are people out there who don’t want to have children. Who don’t want to be with a spouse who drinks alcohol. People who work in a job where they’re gone 2/3 of the time. These people are all out of line with the “typical” American, and yet, are you really going to tell someone who doesn’t want children that they should agree to some anyway just so they can find someone to marry them? When somebody feels strongly about something (as Jon obviously does) and it’s a dealbreaker for them, then I think the majority of people who have responded on this issue are correct; Jon should keep trying to find someone willing to accept what he has to offer.
Moreover, many people are not telling him to do the same thing over and over. From his original e-mail he sounds rather judgmental, and most have commented on this fact. They have told him that he may want to rework his wording (and his mentality that goes with it) when explaining his viewpoint. By changing the way he expresses his views, rather than changing his views, he should get a totally different response from girls.
Now Jon doesn’t mention whether or not he expects the girl to also be a virgin…if so, he really has a long while to wait. Holding out yourself and expecting your partner to hold out while you’re dating them is one thing. Expecting your partner to have held out their whole life is something else entirely. When I do have “the conversation” with a guy I’m dating, I convey to them that I don’t expect them to be virgins but nor should they be unfaithful while we’re dating simply because they’re not getting any. I also explain to them why I’ve decided to wait until marriage for sex, and most guys I’ve dated have responded really well to my reasoning (it is NOT because the bible said so). But yes, Jon and all other virgins waiting to have sex until marriage will have smaller dating pools, and most realize that and accept it with their eyes wide open.
Markus Dec 7th 2007 at 05:31 am 21
Jane,
EMK is just speaking to Jon like most guys speak to each other when women-folk aren’t around. Both sides have “needs” to be taken care of. This is what he means by “service”.
Rachel Dec 7th 2007 at 09:53 am 22
I think that in a relationship that people see as going somewhere or that has time invested in it..people will naturally want that next step. I am a conservative girl who likes to hold off on having sex with someone until I feel we know each other and are ready for that step. In my mind it taking a few months to get there is fine, BUT if this is someone I see myself dating or a potential for more with-I will indeed want to know if we are sexually compatible. Sex is a huge part of a relationship and honestly who wants to fall in love with someone and then find out you have “zero chemistry” in bed together.
Sure you can say you can get help as a couple if this occurs, or that love conquers all, and yada, yada, yada; but in all honesty that strain on a newlywed couple is laying the groundwork for potential disaster.
Think of it simply as inquiring minds want to know, if I like you and feel that I know you and you know me well enough through dating..I want the next step of sex. Otherwise I would be out the door as fast as the next girl, conservative morals and all. Even with a conservative way of thinking, I have always joked dating is “leasing with the option to buy”. You want to test drive the car on all levels before taking it home, in the same way you want to get to know your partner emotionally and intimately before making the commitment of marriage.
Steve Dec 7th 2007 at 10:16 am 23
Thus, those telling him to keep holding out are willfully (and foolishly) ignoring Ben Franklin’s maxim, “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”
The results: women are leaving him.
Your advice: keep up the good work! stay true to yourself!
LOL! Very true.
I have that quote on my office bulletin board. I have seen it attributed to Einstein, Mark Twain, “the ancient chinese”, and now Ben Franklin.
Kat Wilder Dec 7th 2007 at 12:28 pm 24
I agree with ABF — Jon should be looking to meet like-minded women. I love Ben Franklin’s quote, but I’m not so sure that it works when it comes to things like religious beliefs (otherwise, well, they’d be a lot of unhappy people, because religion’s all about belief and faith, even if you never see the results).
And I agree with Jane (although I understand what you’re saying, Markus, and sometimes use the “service” line myself). For someone like Jon, it’s much deeper than servicing, and — as much I have noooo problem with sex outside, inside, on top, in front and in back of marriage — we all need to be respectful of another person’s deeply held beliefs. That’s called tolerance.
And I’m wondering — with dating sites for everyone from those with herpes to those with dogs to those who want to be child-free to those who are looking for millionaires, why, oh why aren’t there any for people who don’t want to have sex outside of marriage? Are we missing a business opportunity here?
lorelei Dec 7th 2007 at 03:38 pm 25
Jon, seriously, keep up the good work! Stay true to yourself!
If this is your decision than so be it. You are completely entitled to follow your own value system.
The decision to have sex isn’t just like trying a new sport or food you’ve never eaten. Don’t listen to the folks out there urging you to just do it already. You’re bound to have a bad time if the reason you decide to do the humpty is just because some goofy bloggers made you feel old-fashioned and pressured.
Sounds to me like your problem is that you don’t realize just how rare your position has beecome. You can’t walk up to just any woman in a bar and expect your average bird to be with you on the sex thing.
First, create a situation where the likelihood rate is high that you’l be in the company of some legal-aged, virginal/chaste women (like a church group or nunnery or Utah - oh wait, I said legal-aged… scratch Utah) and THEN start whipping out your best pickup lines.
Seriously. You gotta try harder to meet women in the right places.
hunter Dec 7th 2007 at 04:39 pm 26
to lorelei,
…..I know 8 women, that meet Jon’s requirements,,,,, they stay in their own little circles,,,,,never,,,venture out of their comfort zone….
hunter Dec 7th 2007 at 04:41 pm 27
….and they guard each other…….
hunter Dec 8th 2007 at 09:46 am 28
no one has ever died, of not having sex, yet……..men are hunters, we conquer and compete…..we almost, all have to think that way, just to get what we need….
Zeus Dec 8th 2007 at 10:24 am 29
Lorelei-
Very good sense of humor there - work it, girl. You might consider taking up comedy writing or taking your act on the road.
Seriously, that’s pretty good stuff. Hope you continue to post here.
A-L Dec 8th 2007 at 08:04 pm 30
Just a little FYI. This comes from an article on Salon.com “According to a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report, 7 percent of unmarried women between ages 25 and 29 have never had sex; neither have 5 percent between 30 and 34 and 4.3 percent between 35 and 39.” (http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2006/09/06/virgins/).
Also, I find it curious that nobody has mentioned the fact that most people who are waiting until marriage to have sex aren’t necessarily waiting for the schmeck/making out/foreplay stuff that other couples engage in, including oral sex. So for those who are concerned about their sexual compatibility, a lot of those questions are answered before a ring is put on a finger, much less any I dos are said.
S. Dec 9th 2007 at 09:02 am 31
I dated a virgin for 8 months. He’s in his mid twenties. Like Jon, he wanted to wait till marriage. When he finally told me he was a virgin, I was in complete shock because I didn’t believe him and I didn’t believe there were anymore twenty-something year old virgins out there in the world. Anyway, I liked him enough to stay with him. We never did the full “act” but we did other things to each other (use your imagination) so it was a good compromise. Jon, maybe you should consider that.
That Single Guy Dec 9th 2007 at 09:28 am 32
Nice article, I think you make some strong points, but at the same time, acting as someone who you aren’t can only lead to a fake relationship. I think it’s better to be yourself and enjoy who you are. If that means you never get laid, well, guess whose fault that ultimately is?
Markus Dec 9th 2007 at 07:41 pm 33
Wow S. That is just making SO much sense. Handies or BJs are OK with our supreme creator but not genital sex. Who thinks of this stuff? The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is making more sense all the time.
Selena Dec 10th 2007 at 04:47 am 34
I’d find S’s “compromise” fun, but frustrating after a awhile. And I do wonder, what makes all “the other things”(presumably some resulting in orgasm) okay, but intercourse a moral no-no?
downtowngal Dec 10th 2007 at 05:01 am 35
I’ve always noticed a difference in boyfriends before and after we’ve had sex in terms of our sex life. Before we’ve ‘done the deed’ - but still do ‘everything but’ it’s been more romantic, getting to know each other, etc. I’ve found that you both try harder to satisfy each other. Afterwards it’s more about doing it and you get complacent. This is why, as much as I enjoy the act itself I find there’s greater build-up to emotional intimacy the longer you wait.
Boston girl Dec 10th 2007 at 10:29 am 36
Jon - Just a note. I am a 30 yr old Harvard-trained scientist who loves sex as much as the next girl. Going after “intelligent scientists” isn’t going to solve this problem. Finding a girl who lives by the same moral code *will*. Just make sure you’re looking in the right place!
BG
BeenThruTheWars Dec 10th 2007 at 10:41 am 37
“The results: women are leaving him.”
That tells me Jon hasn’t been focusing in on and dating the RIGHT set of women — not that Jon is himself wrong or foolish or out of touch with reality for not “putting out like everyone else does these days.” I like the suggestion someone made about finding churches and dating sites that will give him a more appropriate (for him) pool of candidates.
Lyn Dec 12th 2007 at 10:45 pm 38
I agree with #35 — before sex, relationships tend to be more romantic. It is harder to put off sex, and justify the whole “I’m waiting till the right person/marriage” if you are making out heavily before then. If they are ditching you, is probably because they think they will be that girl, so they convince themselves they can persuade you to sleep with them (the most conservative one was already ready to go for it) > ultimately becoming a challenge for her. Nonetheless, if she believes she can do it, is probably because you’ve let her on to believe she can. So, if they diss you, is probably NOT because you’re not putting out, but because you are stringing them along emotionally — just enough to keep yourself in good company, but not quite to compromise your standards. That in itself, would not be considered moral. I would say, that if you really want to wait till married, you should state so in the first place, work heavily on the romance, and frienship aspect, and “keep it clean” until you decide otherwise.
Waiting Dec 13th 2007 at 10:16 am 39
Everything else aside, where you met her, what her beliefs are, blahblahblah… if shes the one, if she loves you she’ll wait. Ask me how I know….
angelsbreath Dec 13th 2007 at 12:23 pm 40
wow….that’s all i can say about this.
Jon,
Please don’t give up your moral standards just because it is going to make your dating pool smaller. If she doesn’t believe what you do, tell me this, why would you really want to date her anyway?? Right, I know you wouldn’t….we all want someone who can share our beliefs. =)
Evan,
Your advice on this subject literally makes me sick. But I suppose that’s advice, it’s not always that great!!
Dreamer Dec 14th 2007 at 06:02 am 41
Wait til marriage? what if you’re sexually incompatible? I think it is a good idea to wait, to get to know someone before jumping in the sack but waiting til marriage might lead to a union of two sexually mismatched people . . . although then again, thinking of all the sexless marriages I know or those couples just having sex in order to have kids, pre-marital sex is not a guarantee of long term sexual compatibility.
Selena Dec 15th 2007 at 01:15 pm 42
Lyn makes an interesting point. Are these women leaving Jon right off the bat because he won’t *put out*? Or are they leaving him because he is emotionally stringing them along somewhat? Deciding they aren’t marriage material, but keeping them around for companionship while he’s waiting? That’s rather off-putting.
Jennifer Dec 18th 2007 at 12:47 am 43
Evan,
I was a bit let down at you advice to Jon:
“Keep beating the drum that says sex is wrong outside of marriage and continue to wonder why most women keep running away, OR:
Get off your moral high horse and start sexually servicing these women the way they want to be serviced.”
I think you missed another option that Jon might have had, and that is to approach the whole topic differently. When a person tells someone that practices pemarital sex that it is immoral they run the risk of being offensive. What ends up happening is that the person feels that they are being called immoral (and let’s be honest, who wants their level of morality to be judged?). Jon should just say that premarital sex is not for him and leave it at that. If that wierds a girl out then forget them. As a proud 21 year old virgin I say that no one should have to drop their standards for the sake of a date or a relationship. Why waste my virginity on losers who would not have appreciated it and that I broke up with any way? Jon, you’re better of dating someone who will share/ and or respect your standards.
Emily Dec 18th 2007 at 02:07 pm 44
I cannot tell you how disgusted I am by the thought of men being told to “service women” by being sexually active with them while dating. If I date a man who is saving sexual activity for marriage, I know a few things about him:
1) He respects me and himself way more than the guy who will willingly engage in sex just because he “wants some” or because I’m afraid I’ll lose him without it.
2) If he can have self-control in abstaining from sex now, then it is more likely that he will continue that self-control (ie. being faithful inside of marriage instead of looking for satisfaction with other women).
3) He is interested in me as a person (personality, talents, intellect, etc.) and not just my body.
4) He wants to love me (ie. not put me at risk and seek what is best for me) rather than use me (treat me as an object to gratify him).
So, Jon, I think that any woman who is treated in this way will feel like a princess if she truly realizes what a sacrifice it can be for a man to want to wait. Saying yes is not always the loving thing to do. Even though it is hard to say no to sexual activity outside of marriage, it is a testament to the love and respect that you have for your future spouse.
Perhaps you have not met the right girl yet, but that does not mean you are doing something wrong. If you want a special girl, you have to act accordingly. If you compromise, you are just settling for less than you deserve.
And finally, know that there are other people out there who are waiting for their spouse (or have waited and are now married) and would not trade their love story with anyone who treated sexuality as no big deal or as a way to attract more people. Quality would be preferred over quantity.
Alice Dec 27th 2007 at 08:54 am 45
Jon,
Your morals are correct. Abstinence before marriage is the right thing to do. It will only make your marriage more beautiful and strong. There are plenty of women out there who believe the same way as you do. Wouldn’t it be better anyway to marry someone with the same morals and beliefs? You don’t need to change; all you need is to keep looking until you find her.
Mary Dec 29th 2007 at 06:11 pm 46
Could it be that women are getting the impression that you are not all that interested in sex? Yes, of course you should stick to your guns if you want sex only with marriage. But if you have a normal sex drive, you should find ways to get that across. There are MANY women out there who would appreciate your ideals but are afraid of getting stuck with a dud in bed. That’s not a judgment, just a biologic imperative on the woman’s part.
hunter Dec 29th 2007 at 06:38 pm 47
to mary,
I see what you are saying….and to top it off,,,,,the average woman does not “train a man in bed,” She won’t ask for what she needs in bed. They usually, just get rid of us…
LR Jan 2nd 2008 at 12:29 am 48
Hi Jon,
I’m assuming you are waiting for religious reasons, correct? I think you should stick with your morals, just make sure not to be judgmental of others’ decisions because that’s not Biblical either. I agree with your thinking - we may not understand God’s plan for us, but the Bible makes it pretty clear that sex (intercourse, oral, etc) is a gift that is intended to be shared only between husband and wife. Personally, I think that if you don’t wait, it loses some of it’s intimacy - it’s not quite as meaningful if you’ve shared the act with several other people versus just your spouse. If you wait, it’s something special between just the two of you. (You can always “learn” and get better — so don’t give in if you’re worried about being inexperienced later)
I’m 26 and am choosing to wait until marriage. I have a different, but very related problem. My bf of about a year has not pressured me, but he has not chosen to wait himself. I have never felt such a deep connection (physically, spiritually, emotionally, etc) with anyone else before….but I am having an incredibly difficult time dealing with the fact that he has not waited. I feel like what was the point of me waiting if he hasn’t b/c then it won’t be as special for him as it is for me when/if we get married. I’ve been dwelling on this a lot recently, and am not sure how I should deal with it — i cant just “get over it” but I don’t want to give up on the best relationship I’ve ever been in either. Any adivice from anyone?
Emily Jan 3rd 2008 at 07:11 am 49
LR,
Your feelings about your boyfriend’s previous sexual activity are completely natural! I have friends who have been in that situation and struggled to accept the past of their bf/gf (or in some cases their own past). The important thing you need to figure out is if your bf wants to change. You said he isn’t pressuring you, which is awesome. Does he love you so much that he doesn’t want to use you (sexually or otherwise)? Does he regret his previous sexual choices and desire to start anew?
I think it’s important for you two to discuss your feelings on this subject, as difficult as it may be. Does he understand why this is hard for you? Do you understand what his current feelings are?
Knowing people on both sides of this situation, I know that those who have not waited are incredibly grateful for the gift that their spouse gave them by waiting for them. On the other hand, those who have not waited often regret their past — but one cannot change the past, only one’s future choices. What these people have chosen to do is to wait “from this day forward.” Forgiveness on your part is not easy, but it is possible.
If you make the choice to always seek what’s best for this man (what love really is) and it leads you to marraige, then God will give you the strength you need to deal with his past.
Selena Jan 3rd 2008 at 08:45 pm 50
Emily- You wrote, “Forgiveness on your part is not easy, but it is possible.”
Why should LR have to forgive her bf for having sexual experience before they even met?!!! He didn’t *do* anything to her that requires forgiveness. What an incredibly self-righteous idea.
It is her misfortune to have fallen in love with a man who chose not to ‘wait’ as she has such conflict about about not being someone’s first and only. After the age of 26, the pool of males who are ‘waiting’ is only going to get smaller and smaller, so she would potentially have this self-issue with the majority of possible mates, not just this particular one.
LR, if you find this issue to continually eat away at you and effect an otherwise good relationship, perhaps you should consider seeing a therapist about it. You could break up with your bf and go back to waiting for someone else who has waited, but you might well be faced with this same issue again if you fall for another man who isn’t a virgin. The older you get, the fewer you will meet–you need to get realistic about this.
A-L Jan 5th 2008 at 12:23 am 51
LR,
Like you, I’m waiting to be married before having sex. But I don’t think my partner’s sexual past is of great importance here. It’s the sexual relationship the two of you have had. I think that reserving sexual intercourse for the marriage then makes sex between the two of you far more special than sex would be if you would have engaged in it together beforehand. A special bond is created that ties you together in a way that only exists within your marriage. If one (or both) of you have had sex with other people, it doesn’t really matter. It’s the fact that the two of you have decided to hold off on sex with your relationship together, and that will be what strengthens the intimacy in your marriage. It’s not the number of sexual partners, it’s a matter of reserving the intimacy of sex for your marriage.
And as others on the thread have said, it may not be impossible for a virgin to find someone for a serious relationship, but if you’re going to limit yourself to ONLY virgins, it’s going to be an extreme challenge. Just my two cents.
Eunice Jan 8th 2008 at 05:08 pm 52
yeah, same to Jennifer who posted here on Dec 18, I am a proud 24 yo virgin.. (beat you, huh, Jen?? hehe.. ) what’s the matter of not having sex and keep it until we get married?? well, I dont understand why people out there ( I am in Indonesia.. but dont think we are all virgin here, virgins are the same rare here and there) think so highly about the “test-drive”.. oh, come on, if you love someone would you still mind his or her inexperience in it?? well, you can teach him/her (in marriage)…
hey Jon, I believe you can find a girl who meet your standard there, you just have to find her in the right situation
Shari Jan 11th 2008 at 04:54 am 53
Jon - I agree with all those who are saying to hold onto your morals. This is much different than a haircut that might make your picture unattractive. This is a moral decision, whether religiously based or not, and to compromise your morals just to get a date, or to get married, won’t equal a happy union.
To all those who speak of sexual compatability and needing to know the sexual chemistry is there - have you thought of what happens to this sexual chemistry if the two of you stay married past the time the body refuses to operate in this capacity? Sure, if you had great sexual chemistry before that you have a lot of nice memories to keep you warm in that old age, but if you concentrated so much on that person who fulfilled the physical aspect in just the right way, you may have missed the one who you could continue to “stand” when that part of your life goes away. Sex is important, but it’s just another way of conversing. When you give it too much importance, you can also pass by the person who can make you happy no matter what.
I was married for over 20 years to a man who, during the last few years of the marriage, lost his ability to sexually perform and we discovered that despite 20+ years of marriage, despite the children, there was very little else, aside from this stellar sex life, keeping us together. So when the stellar sex life was gone, so was the marriage.
Alice Feb 2nd 2008 at 03:29 am 54
I think you’re being incredibly harsh, not to mention insensitive and just plain stupid.
Evan clearly has some strong beliefs, as well as a desire for love and companionship. And your best advice is to go a complete personality overhaul to “fit in” with the majority? What is this, high school? That’s like telling a 14-year-old girl to sleep with her first boyfriend to “prove she loves him”, or tell a punk that they will never get a date unless they start looking more like in investment banker. What a narrow-sighted view of society!
Let me stop here and point out that personally, I’m not a fan of abstinence and I strongly believe that it’s short-sighted and plain archaic, so I’m not beating the Christian Superiority drum here - but merely pointing out that “advice” like yours has the potential to inflict serious consequences on a person, both social and psychological.
However, “change or stay single” are NOT the only two options. If he were the last man on earth who held those beliefs, then you, indeed, would be right. He’s not.
My best advice is not to change his behaviour, or his personality, or his beliefs, but simply find women who accommodate them. Where is he meeting people? Match.com? How about trying a local church group, or maybe a Christian dating site? Through religious friends, perhaps? The chances of finding like-minded people through those channels are significantly higher than in “adult fun” personal ads.
Everyone has different beliefs - changing them to suit the majority to increase your chances of not dying a spinster is not only shallow and pathetic, but also unnecessary.
Finally, if you’re “not a psychologist”, what exactly gives you the license to give out relationship advice, particularly bad one?
Alice Feb 2nd 2008 at 03:30 am 55
Sorry, I meant “Jon clearly has strong beliefs…”, not Evan
Sam Feb 2nd 2008 at 02:25 pm 56
That was absolutely the worst advice I’ve ever seen.
A year and a half ago, my current girlfriend and I had the sex talk, and she said two things to me:
1. In a fight between you and God, God wins, because He’s God and He’s perfect, so don’t even try.
2. I love my husband more than anyone else, and he matters enough to me that I will wait for him.
Now, the first one I was kind of expecting, but the second one really stopped me, and I realized she was right. If you plan on having a happy, loving, crazy-head-over-heels, complete marriage with someone, isn’t that person WORTH delaying some personal pleasure for?
Evan says that you are in the minority, and that is true–if you pick up girls in a bar. People looking for people in a bar are looking for sex. That’s just how it is. But if you’re looking for that wonderful girl to date for several years, propose to in the cheesiest manner possible, and spend the rest of your life having sex with her only, I personally know dozens of girls looking for you.
You just have to look in the right place.
hunter Feb 3rd 2008 at 11:37 am 57
to sam,
you said, “if you pick up girls at bar,” that is out of the past….. According to research and studies, women no longer allow that. What is “in” now, is at work… women are getting laid at work…much safer, because they know the man, and see him every day….
Rachael Feb 4th 2008 at 12:06 pm 58
Alice said: “Finally, if you’re “not a psychologist”, what exactly gives you the license to give out relationship advice, particularly bad one?”
In what universe does a person need to be a psychologist to give out relationship advice? Are you saying you never get (usually unsolicited) relationship advice from a girlfriend or sister?
What gives Evan the license to give out relationship advice is simple: people ask him for it. Jon specifically asked Evan for his advice, rather than seek out a psychologist.
As to the advice…I don’t necessarily agree that Jon should simply decide to abandon his strong feelings about sex. But if he wants a larger dating pool, he’s going to have to do just that. If he’s satisfied knowing that he’s going to have to stick to the much smaller group of women who don’t believe in sex before marriage, then, cool. But it’s just a fact of life - most women are gonna want sex with their partner before marriage, and no amount of wishing (or logical arguments about there being more to life than sex) will change that.
And Jon? I’m an “intelligent scientist”, and I’d never stay in a relationship with a man who didn’t want to have sex with me. Sure, there’s more to life than sex, but sex is a huge component of a love relationship, and I wouldn’t have considered marrying a man without first finding out that we were sexually compatible.
mv Feb 15th 2008 at 07:03 pm 59
So I’m one of those girls who thinks sex should be saved for a serious relationship. Serious as in nobody (including us) can imagine life apart and we’re doing all the practical stuff (ie saving for a down payment, spending holidays with both families) to create a health foundation for the future. There’s nothing wrong with this perspective, as long as Jon is looking for someone who agrees with it.
My question to Jon is, where are you looking? What first impression are you creating? For example, if the abstinence stance is religion-based, perhaps positive venues would be faith-based activities. This is not to say that the girls will have any less experience, just that they may be more understanding of Jon’s perspective. The key to successful dating is to ID the appropriate target audience. In this scenario, asking the cute liberal activist may not be the best decision. Frankly there are only so many hours in the day, so start spending them with those dates that have potential.
In response to Evan’s post: change your screening technique, Jon, b/c those you’ve found so far obviously aren’t a good match. Also, be willing to say “we’re not compatible” to those who don’t share your moral/religious conviction, regardless of how much you like them - it’s not going to work so why give false hope? If you handle this well, your incompatible matches may become your greatest advocates.
Michael Ejercito Feb 16th 2008 at 10:27 am 60
Jon,
The best thing to do is to find women who are part of this “abstinence-until-marriage” subculture.
Justin Mar 10th 2008 at 08:25 am 61
While I can appreciate someone taking a religious or moral stance on the no sex before marriage issue, it comes down to a trust thing. My ex wife had no desire to be intimate prior to us being married, but said that that would “change” after we tied the knot. It didn’t change, we still didn’t have much sex at all, and we divorced.
I’d love to find someone and wait until marriage, but I have to know for a fact without any doubt, that physical intimacy is going to be an important part of the relationship. Frankly, words don’t mean anything anymore. I’ve dated several women since my divorce and one actually told me that sex wasn’t important after marriage. She was kicked to the curb the next day.
At this point, it’s not negotiable from my stand point. Words just don’t cut it.
JerseyGirl Mar 16th 2008 at 08:23 am 62
It might have more to do with how you approach these women with your “I don’t do sex early” thing. That could be the real reason they are turned off, by your approach, not your message. It’s good to have certain vaules and stand up for them..it’s great infact. But how you carry it out is what matters. The difference between a Christian Fanatic and a Christian is that they have the same beliefs but they deliver their message different. And most people are turned off by fanatics of any kind.
You also have to remember that women have been conditioned to think that men think and want sex 24/7. And that if a man doesn’t want this right away, or doesn’t push for it something is either wrong with HER (she isn’t sexy or attractive enough to him) or with him (he’s gay/not really into her). And most women want to feel so undeniably attractive to their mate that he can’t keep his hands off of her.
With that in mind, you don’t have to negate on your beliefs. You just have to work on how you deliver that message and make sure the woman you are seeing doesn’t question your interest in her and make sure she knows that there will be sex eventually but you want to take your time.
Katie Mar 23rd 2008 at 12:52 pm 63
Dear Jon
I’ve been struggling with a similar issue, but I don’t want you to give up! I don’t feel pressured to have sex so much as I keep wondering why it’s wrong. My current boyfriend I’ve known for five years, but we’ve only been dating for four months. He’s very respectful of my decision not to have sex, but I know it’s killing him, and the truth is I want it too. I want to tell you to be strong and don’t give in, that’s there are lots of Christian girls out there who are waiting and I could even introduce you to a few, if you were interested. But I don’t know how much encouragement I can really give you when I know any day I’ll slip up and fall as an example. Good luck, I hope it goes better for you than it is for me.
Katie
BA Apr 10th 2008 at 06:55 pm 64
Im with Emily, It does cheapen if your partner didnt wait, in such a godless world its hard. I think a virgin woman should not settle for a man who has sowed his oates because he has poor judgement and a lack of control, their are a large number of men in their 20s who are virgins just many arent brave enough to say they are.
BA Apr 10th 2008 at 07:00 pm 65
Emily, you might feel strong emotions for him but those doubts might be God telling you he has someone better. I know as a man, I would be sicken if a woman had sold herself short. They way I look at it is you have a lot of people who claim to be Christians but dont follow the bible, thats why the world hasnt change, nothing is wrong with God, its man who is flawed. When you watch porn, have pre marital sex you begin to take something about fromt eh act of sex, I never had a problem turning down sex , though I have struggled with porn, but recently I have stop cold turkey on that. STDs, Children or of wedlock and people are cool with it now.
Bobby Cutts - adulterous man how had 7 women and killed one.
Look at Nancy Grace and you will start to see people are paying for their sexual sins, Fornications, Adultery.
Its hard but we of faith need to stick togethr and encouage each other I know I have prayed to God to be equally yoked with virgin bride. and with God all things are possible.
Michael Ejercito Apr 11th 2008 at 07:19 am 66
Katie,
What exactly are you waiting for?
Khalid Apr 11th 2008 at 11:07 am 67
I agree with Alice, not the response to the article.
A-L Apr 11th 2008 at 04:31 pm 68
I have to disagree with BA’s contention that there are large numbers of virgin males available for virgin women to reserve themselves for. According to a CDC report (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/ad/ad362.pdf) here are the statistics of male virgins, by age.
11% 22-24 years old
4.7% 25-29 years old
3.1% 30-34 years old
1.9% 35-44 years old
Male virgins exist, yes. But holding out for one, especially the older you get, is increasingly unobtainable.
Secondly, there’s a phenomenon I observed at a divinity school where a close friend attended. At that school there was a high incidence of meeting someone, getting engaged, and married all within ONE year. Do I think that divinity students have a higher likelihood of being struck by a thunderbolt of love? No. I contend that it’s because they wanted to have sex, and felt that sex should be reserved for marriage. Therefore they married the first person they liked who liked them back. I’ve also known short courtships to not be very uncommon in churches that are more vocal about premarital abstinence.
I believe this stance can be just as detrimental to marriages as many other factors that churches decry. If you’re not taking the time to make sure you truly know someone, are compatible with them, and are happy to make the sacrifices and compromises necessary for a lifelong commitment, then you’re setting yourself up for divorce or a very unhappy marriage. In these situations I think it would be better to have sex just so that it’s not the primary factor pushing one to the altar.
This is why I make no special efforts to find another virgin. Besides the paucity of those men, I don’t want to find someone who only wants to marry me so he can have sex. I want the whole package, and I think that most men who’ve had sex before are looking for the same as well.
Again, just my $0.02.
Deathslayer Apr 12th 2008 at 04:29 am 69
This problem is easy to solve.
If virginity is THIS important, then arrange for a chaperone to go with you on all dates, go only in public places and never alone and date for over a year…plus, you seem to be picking the SAME sort of men…either change your selection technique or go to a coutry or join a religion that arranges marriages.
If I were going to make some suggestions for approaches which might be more useful than others, I would say start with looking at older style courtship processes.
When I was a kid, the first question parents would ask their child who had a new love interest was “Do they come from a good family?”
That one simple question contained a huge amount of wisdom. Look at the value system they were raised in and thus are likely to hold to. Try to meet a woman’s family. If her mother or sisters are not able to keep men or repeatedly divorced, or her dad is ajerk, or gone because he either got pushed out of the family or was a deadbeat, look somewhere else.
There is another factor in that as well. There really is something which might be called “social capital.” A good family reputation benefits all the members of a family and a bad one harms all of them.
From a 2006 article-thanks, del
Furthermore, many foreign women have customs that are much better than American girls. Not that they are better than American girls, but just better at dating. Indians are allowed a few chaperoned dates before marriage. The marriage is arranged, but you can refuse and ask your parents to choose another for you.
During these dates, most Indian girls will tell her prospective husband her faults and ask the guy what his faults are. These girls do not try to trap a guy into marriage by putting her best foot forward. Instead, they try their best to be sure that they can live with each others’ faults before getting married.
American girls will try to trap you in a marriage with hot sex and seduction. They will never reveal their faults before marriage.
Only 20 percent of Filipina marriages with American men end in divorce. This is higher than the 5 percent Indian divorce rate, but still lower than the American divorce rate of 50-60 percent. You might be surprised to find that you are incredibly lucky to have a love marriage that works because, statistically, arranged marriages are at an advantage.
Yes, love marriages can work, too (I am an optimist). Since I am not Indian, I cannot have an arranged marriage. So, I will do the following to cut hormones out of the dating equation in order to make a rational decision about who I will marry. I will not have sex before marriage. If I get horny, I will have sex with a prostitute. I will have a pernuptial agreement to make sure we understand exactly what to expect of each other. I will serreptitiously use a voice activated lie detector on her. I will investigate her with a private detective. The latter two may seem paranoid, but you might be surprised to find that it is necessary (though not foolproof) to root out the liars. Most western women will go through ridiculous lengths to attract a husband. They wear makeup, they’ll say almost anything, etc. Muslim women will hide their face (or at least their hair) and bare their faults at pre-marriage chaperoned dates. To me, makeup is a form of visual dishonesty. So, what’s to stop her from verbal dishonesty?
You might be surprised to find that the odds are against a love marriage working out. 50 to 60 percent of all love marriages in the USA end in divorce within the first 2 years. However, only 5 percent of arranged marriages end in divorce. This is because arranged marriages are not made of hormones. They are arranged with care by parents according to compatibility of the bride and groom. I had a classmate in medical school who got an arranged marriage. I thought it was weird until I ended up in a bad love marriage. She is still happily married. None of the other doctors at the hospital are happily married. Only one doctor, an Indian guy who had an arranged marriage is happily married. It is best that you marry someone who you do not love, but will grow to love because you’ve chosen your mate logically without hormones interfering.
You want someone to respect your virginity, then pick men who are taught it’s value AND have something else to offer them besides a clean slate.
Deathslayer
BA Apr 12th 2008 at 12:16 pm 70
Well, I am a 25 year old male virgin and I played sports in high school and college. No one ever asked me if I was a virgin, most these stats are b.s. that try to make young people feel about God, themslefs and chaste.
Why would I want to obstain from sex to give my wife a gift, and the only gift she is giving me is she has had sex with some other men?
I believe in repentence but I know even If I do marry a woman who has had sex before me I would honestly tell her after we had sex that is a dissapointment she isnt a virgin and it cheapens that in our relationship, not to say I wouldnt love her but I would kind of look at me waiting for marriage to marry a person who didnt as cheapened. I wouldnt bring it up to her but I would surely tell her if she asked so how was your first time, I would say much better if you had been a virgin as well. So I would say its not as exciting as it would have been if you had held out.
As a man I dont want to even marry a woman has had kids with another man, like if i have a child with a woman I want to experience that with her for the first time as wella s sex.
Now my goal might lead to a very lonely and painful life, but I know if I met a woman who I loved and found out she had sex with other men it would cheapen the marriage for me.
A woman having a kid would definitely kill the deal, I would never marry a woman who has had kids, been divorces or who has had another sexual partner.
I believe or I ope that with God all things are possible and I hope he leads me to a nice virgin woman who has held my same values, I dont want one of these born again virgins who slept around with any and everything and now after all those bad boys have broke their hearts want a realtionship with me a nice guy, I can honestly say I turned down sex quite a bit 4 years in college why not have a spouse who done the same.
THis is a painful part of life but hey unless i find another virgin, I much rather die alone.
BA Apr 12th 2008 at 12:22 pm 71
TO AL
My father was and adutlerss. My mother was a sorry wife who laid around felt sorry for herself.
If a woman would judge me based on my family I think they would lose out.
I have been baptised in the name of the Lord Jesus.
I have a college education.
I dont drink or smoke.
I have never had premartial oral or sex( which is a turn off to many women)
But I have a strong set or morals and values. My father now still lives as a proud adultery. My mother is a Godless woman who dabbles in sorcery.
My father has almost nothing to do with me and my mother spites me.
I never been arrested, though I did back slide a lil from 22-25 I could never bring myself to fornicate or even lay with a married woman and I had my chances but each ttim turned away. I want something speical and real. I am embarassed by my family thats why I am anti fornication and adultery I have seen the pain it causes. My father has 8 brothers and sisters who only 1 has never been divorces much is the same on my mothers side.
I am the only one who follows jesus christ. I have been baptise din his name and now I am waiting for the holy spirt.
I am 25 and I like to have wholesome fun, I work out, go to musems, run on the beach and I have other dreams.
I pray that Lord Jesus, grants me the desires of my heart but he doenst have to and I am find dying a lonely life but I will be in the church and I will be doing good by the poor and praying for all righeous and unrighteous.
I just want a virgin bride like myself, because I dont want a woman who settled for others because I didnt settle for others thanks to the Lord Jesus Christ.
BA Apr 12th 2008 at 12:30 pm 72
Another thing to so called Christians….. The bible says the a young WIDOW should remarry because she will grow weary of the lord. AND WIDOWS Should REMARRY but to you who marry and your first spouses are still living you commit ADULTERY….
When Jesus was talking about accept it be adutlery he was talking about someone being engaged to be married. When Marry became pregnant to jesus she was engaged to Joseph and in those days when one was engaged they call them Husband and Wife though they had not yet married.
So to all you Christian hypocrites with you 2nd and 3rd marriages please save it with the bulcrap Im saving it for marriage. What ar eyou saving it for? Your not a virgin you have 3 and 4 kids, and what is this your 2nd and 3rd marriage your first spouse still lives….. Jesus Christ says you are married to your husand or wife as long as THEY SHOULD LIVe , but he said if you CANT LIVE WITH A SPOUSE SEPERATE, do not be fooled if you happen to in YOUR POOR JUGDEMENT marry a wicked man separate if he beats you or your children or is bringing STDs home but he is still your HUSBAND UNTILL DEATH separeates you for BETTER OR FOR WORSE.
hunter Apr 12th 2008 at 03:15 pm 73
to A-L,
Keep in mind, most women marry from the neck down, men, mostly, marry with a certificate in hand….
Michael Ejercito Apr 13th 2008 at 04:13 pm 74
What about Filipino marriages with American women?
A-L Apr 13th 2008 at 05:47 pm 75
Hunter: I need clarification on your comment. Afraid I’m too dense to grasp what you’re saying here.
BA: I think you intended to direct your comment about looking at someone’s family to Deathslayer, not me, as he was the one who put forth the idea of assessing the potential mate’s family as important background info.
In terms of where the statistics are coming from, they’re from the Center for Disease Control, an agency that’s part of our federal government. Yes, there are statistics out there that aren’t very credible, but I think these are. As I said in my previous post, male virgins exist. But in your age group, that’s less than 5% of the population. And if you’re looking for a virgin bride, that’s no more than 7% of the women your age (see a previous post of mine in this thread for further details). And as you age, the number of virgins (male & female) will decrease.
In terms of your spouse’s sexual history, I don’t think it’s that important (see post #51). But if you’re willing to wait, and risk never marrying, rather than to compromise on this issue, that’s your choice. But if you do marry a nonvirgin, please don’t tell her how her sexual past has cheapened your marriage. That would be very destructive, and in all likelihood quite self-defeating. If you believe that saving yourself is a gift for your spouse, then it’s not something to hold over her head because she can’t give you the same gift.
hunter Apr 14th 2008 at 06:01 pm 76
to A-L,
Women mostly, “bond” with a man by having sex. Women mostly, are exclusive, socially and sexually, when they have sex with a man. So, the saying, women marry from the neck down.
gabby Jun 9th 2008 at 09:00 am 77
How can abstinence”Out of step”??? That is not something that goes in and out of fashion like stone washed jeans and big hair.
Someone’s beliefs as pertaining to religionn transcend time. The secular view in America has changed to become more promiscuous, but that doesn’t make it right.
In the end, it’s not society you answer to Jon, it’s God. Stick to your guns and you’ll find a gal who agrees with your way of life. Don’t give up.
Michael Ejercito Jun 9th 2008 at 10:55 am 78
gabby,
95% of American women have had premarital sex.
Missy Jun 11th 2008 at 07:28 pm 79
I don’t see what the problem is; are there really THAT many middle aged women out there that have issues with a guy who doesn’t want to grope them on the first date? Personally I’d find it rather refreshing to not be pressured during those first few weeks of dating.
My advice is to look in your own circles; those circles might be bible study groups or… well I’m not sure what else. But you see where I’m getting at, yes? You don’t go looking in a disco for a girl who likes to spend a quiet night at home, and you don’t go trolling the bars or the internet for a girl who doesn’t have lots of hot sex near the top of her priority list.
You’ll find someone for you, I’m sure. And if not your spirit will eventually be broken down by society and you might start to rationalize that strong morals and beliefs have no place in modern relationships. Either one.
hunter Jun 14th 2008 at 08:26 am 80
to Missy,
I admire your choice of words.
Sleepless in... Jul 4th 2008 at 12:02 pm 81
I hope I haven’t set some kind of record in a no sex relationship.
I dated a widowed (for 3 years) Christian woman for about 4 years. Early on (when we were just friends) she told me she felt so out of step with todays morals and did not believe in pre-marital sex, even after marriage. She grew up in the 50’s when this was much more the norm. Even her friends told her that she was no longer a virgin and was happy that I was in her life.
I had no issue with this as we were just friends and had no sexual interest in her at that time. We did hang out together most weekends. I grew to enjoy my time and “dates” with her. She wanted to be “wined and dined” and take up from her dating years 30 years prior. I just liked hanging out and doing things together. After a maybe 6 months, she initiated some hugging and kissing and I slowly became interested in her physically. She told me that asked her friends what was wrong with me for not initiating something. I never told her I wasn’t interested in her in that way and besides knew her moral convictions were deep. I guess she wanted to be kissed and do what she did as a young dating woman. But today, few guys will stop at that. I did.
She would put the brakes on and I felt like a teenager with a parent always there! We could not go in her bedroom, only the couch or floor. It took forever for her to trust me. I eventually made her see how foolish this was being adults today and all. We never had intercourse, or got totally nude, just kissing, rubbing and petting (me to her). Often for many hours.
Over time, this drove me crazy and I was much more sexual than she was and it was tormenting me physically and mentally. I know this affected her at Church and I am sure she confessed it all. I didn’t share her religion and don’t believe in any man of the cloth telling me how to live my life. I was upset that we could only go so far in the relationship and knew in my heart that we were wrong for each other, we often irritated each other and she was very quickly angered and controlling of me. I should have left but was in love, stupid and weak.
Eventually, she would not let me touch her at all and we saw each other less and less. She would not talk about it. It was off and on and finally we broke it off. I never got a solid reason. I know menopause kicked in big time which didn’t help. Today it is simply a lesson learned as life has been better for me without her.
My take on this subject is that it is up to the individuals and have different morals, backgrounds ans beliefs that we have to work and live with. It may be better to live within your beliefs and better if you can find someone else who feels the same. It would likely not work or be fair to try to change someone, even yourself.
David Jul 4th 2008 at 02:28 pm 82
Selena, I think sexual compatibility is something that can be achieved through the course of a relationship.
Read the article on the posted link to see where I’m coming from.
David
Veryman Jul 5th 2008 at 12:36 pm 83
I’m in my late 30’s and PROUDLY virgin. I am also proud of my accomplishments on the personal and the professional level and I am at peace with myself. I have enough self confidence that I never felt needy for someone’s approval of my manhood. And yes, I make it clear from the start that I am ONLY into marriage.
The choice circle is small but I’m not the only one out there. It’s only a matter of time to get to share the REST AND BEST of my life with the right woman; one who have saved her self for someone trustworthy and GENUINE. Too bad, many women keep falling for the same jerks but they don’t realize they just ask for it.
Anyway, I truly believe it’s up to anyone to choose their own way; isn’t that what makes us unique? I know it’s hard to stick to high morals nowadays but look..this is quite the NORM in other societies.
No one should compromise their INTEGRITY just to join the big herd. Those who would not or could not hold on to the TOP should not tease others to join them DOWN in this fake heaven.
Let’s leave some room for VIRTUE to grow in this world before it turns too ugly for everyone. True believers have to remember they were meant to be MINORITY, not only on the chastity level but also on all morals. Isn’t lying and selfishness becoming prevalent? Doesn’t it take patience and courage to hold on to honesty and kindness?
Believers whether morals or religious have to accept the challenges and hold on until they redeem the rewards now or later; call it FAITH.
Someone Jul 22nd 2008 at 09:28 am 84
Hi, I am a 21 year old woman who is a virgin and my boyfriend who is 25 is a virgin too. Of course for many people is weird, but in reality is nothing out of this world. We are two sexual people and we are fun, we are just creative. I though it was impossible to find a virgin man and was accustomed that all men in the world my age were not virgins anymore and my future bf was not going to be a virgin, but it turned to be the opposite way, and we are very happy we ourselves. Because you are a virgin that doesn’t mean you have to be extremely reserved and cold, etc. I find my b.f irresistible because he is proud that he is a virgin, he works out, has a great body, he is very sexy. Many people would think that we are weird and wrong but no, what matter is that we are happy.
Sahaja Jul 29th 2008 at 06:55 am 85
Look, Jon asked Evan his opinion and he got his answer. Everyone has their own personal opinion and that falls true to their own life. And opinions can change. I think a lot of the comments were unrelated to Jon’s specific question - What does quoting statistics about filipino marriages and chaperoned dates have to do with him? Jon, honestly, do what is best for you by finding your target audience. I agree with some of the commenters above that since this important to you, you need to find someone who finds that equally important. I am sure there has to be dating sites out there for people who want to wait until marriage - I am not sure what religion you are, or even if you are waiting for religious reasons, but maybe finding a dating site with the same religion as yours would be an idea. I hope you find your dream woman and here’s to your happy hunting!
Lucy Aug 2nd 2008 at 08:15 pm 86
I believe in saving your virginity for marriage too. Therefore, my boyfriend is breaking up with me, because he cannot accept it. He think if I love him, I would give him everything. I simply think he’s not respecting my belief.
Lucy Aug 3rd 2008 at 03:13 am 87
After reading back, I feel much better to know there are some people out there holding the same belief as I do despite my boyfriend keeps telling me there is no one there out there like you, if you prefer ending a relationship over saving your virginity, it would be hard for you to find the right person for you. I am 28 and my boyfriend is 32,he’s not a virgin, I just cannot understand why he can’t do the same while I am not imposing my belief on him,
Karl R Aug 4th 2008 at 10:05 am 88
Lucy (#86 & #87) stated:
“I believe in saving your virginity for marriage too. Therefore, my boyfriend is breaking up with me, because he cannot accept it.”
“I simply think he’s not respecting my belief.”
“he’s not a virgin, I just cannot understand why he can’t do the same while I am not imposing my belief on him”
Technically you’re correct. You’re not imposing your belief on your boyfriend that he should wait until marriage for sex. But you are imposing that behavior on him, even though he does not believe in it. If he chooses not to follow that behavior, his options are to break up with you, or to cheat on you.
That may not technically be imposing your belief on him, but the effective difference is very small.
Lucy Aug 5th 2008 at 02:15 am 89
Karl R, maybe you are right, i am imposing on him in some way or other. someone has to make concession when there is a difference on major issue in a relatio