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Should Men Buy Flowers or Gifts for Women on First Dates?

Do you recommend guys bring flowers or small gifts on the 1st date to present to the woman he’s trying to woo? 

It’s a personal decision of course, but a tough one at that. Some of the pick up artists tell students not to offer to buy a woman a drink in a bar, for a couple reasons (and I agree): First, some women just freeload, take the drink, and walk away (and do this all night to guys). Second, the pick up artists tell students the woman has to EARN the drink first (meaning she has to display that she is sincerely interested in the guy as well). 

By the same token, I’m beginning to wonder if the woman has to earn the flowers/candy (whatever) first before just giving them to her on a first date or in an attempt to get a date with her altogether.  Meaning, if the first date goes well, perhaps the better time to spend hard earned cash on flowers or candy is on the 2nd date. 

After all, many a schmuck (myself included) has bought flowers for a woman, either having them delivered to her office BEFORE the guy even asks her out, or brings them on the 1st date, only to not have the hoped for romance go anywhere, and then feel like a loser for blowing $50 on flowers on top of the dinner. 

Any advice on this?  Thanks.

Justin

Dear Justin,

Years ago, I gave a speech following a book signing for “I Can’t Believe I’m Buying This Book”. Afterwards, a nerd in his early forties approached me, agitated. He was hung up on the flowers question as well.

“I don’t understand,” he bellowed, “It’s good manners to give flowers on a first date. My father courted my mother that way. I don’t see what’s wrong with it.”

“It’s just a little too much,” I replied, diplomatically. “It’s a nice gesture…once you’re already in a relationship. But as a tool for wooing a woman, it can come off as a little cheesy.”

“Since when has chivalry become cheesy?” the man said, even more agitated. “I’m trying to demonstrate that I’m a thoughtful, generous man, and she’s judging me negatively for it? I don’t understand that kind of thinking.”

And he didn’t. Like most people on most issues, he was hard-wired to believe one thing, and was resistant to the possibility that he was wrong.

“Even if I agree with you in principle, sir,” I chimed in, “it doesn’t really matter. If you give flowers to every woman on the first date, and every woman agrees that it’s an over-the-top gesture which has been outdated for thirty years, why are you still fighting it? Instead of trying to convince womankind that they need to re-evaluate what’s comfortable, why don’t you just change tactics?”

He paused and took a deep breath. He looked me right in the eyes.

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45 Comments »Dating Tips & Advice, Online Dating Tips & Advice

What Do You Say After A First Date With No Chemistry?

Dear Evan,

What do you do when you hit it off with someone in an email correspondence and in phone conversations, and then when you meet you find them unattractive? It’s not the kind of thing you can just come out and say, “I didn’t feel the chemistry,” because it means you didn’t like how they look. It’s clear that’s the reason. Some photos are just not how people really look, and while I don’t think they are misrepresenting themselves, it creates a problem. Especially since before meeting they think you think they’re great.  What do you suggest?

Wondering

Dear Wondering,

Your question reminded me of a poem by Elizabeth Barrett Browning, entitled “How Do I Blow Off Thee?”

How do I blow off thee? Let me count the ways.
I blow off thee for weight and height.
For claims of age that don’t seem right.
For lack of chemistry and failure to praise.
I blow off thee any number of ways.
For photos proffered and deleted on sight.
For writing clichés, so hackneyed and trite.
I blow off thee quickly, at a wrong turn of phrase.
I blow off thee quietly, never meeting your gaze.
By hiding after saying, “I’ll talk to you soon”.
By calling during thy lunch break at noon.
I blow off thee after our very first date.
‘Fore your habits on my nerves ever should grate.
I blow off thee to show you who’s boss.
Then why do I sense it is I that has lost?

Yeah, it’s a little melancholy, but all the great poets of the 1800’s had a light case of the blues, as well. 

Oh, wait, you had a question. And I’m supposed to have an answer. Let me get out of poetry mode for a second.

Okay, I’m back. And I will resist all impulses to write my response to in iambic pentameter.

So, in response to your query about how to tell someone that it’s the lack of chemistry that’s the reason for blowing someone off, how about this novel idea: How about you don’t say anything? How about not hashing out the whys and the hows after only one date? How about not having a terribly uncomfortable and unnecessary conversation? How about writing a quick email that says, “I had a fun time last night, but didn’t feel that necessary ‘click’ to move things forward. You seem like a great catch, though, and I wish you the best of luck in your search.” That’s not too harsh, is it?…

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Women Who Earn More Than Men - And The Men Who Resent Them!

From the New York Times

For Whitney Hess, a 25-year-old software designer in Manhattan, the tension that ultimately ended her recent relationships was all right there, in the digits on her pay stub.

The awkwardness started with nights out. She would want to try the latest downtown bistro, but her boyfriends, who worked in creative jobs that paid less than hers, preferred diners.

They would say, “Wow, you’re so sophisticated,” she recalled. A first look at her apartment, a smartly appointed studio in a full-service building in TriBeCa, would only reinforce the impression. “They wouldn’t want me to see their apartments,” she said, because they lived in cramped surroundings in distant quadrants of Brooklyn or the Bronx.

One of them, she said, finally just came out and said it. “Look,” Ms. Hess recalled him saying, “it makes me really uncomfortable that you make more money than me. I’m going to put that out on the table and try to get over it.”

But he never got over it, she said.

“The sad thing is that I really liked the guy,” she said. “If that hadn’t been an issue with him, we’d probably still be dating.”

Ms. Hess’s quandary is becoming more common for many young women. For the first time, women in their 20s who work full time in several American cities — New York, Chicago, Boston and Minneapolis — are earning higher wages than men in the same age range, according to a recent analysis of 2005 census data by Andrew Beveridge, a sociology professor at Queens College in New York.

For instance, the median income of women age 21 to 30 in New York who are employed full time was 17 percent higher than that of comparable men.

Professor Beveridge said the gap is largely driven by a gulf in education: 53 percent of women employed full time in their 20s were college graduates, compared with 38 percent of men. Women are also more likely to have graduate degrees. “They have more of everything,” Professor Beveridge said.

The shift is playing out in new, unanticipated ways on the dating front. Women are encountering forms of hostility they weren’t prepared to meet, and are trying to figure out how to balance pride in their accomplishments against their perceived need to bolster the egos of the men they date.

A lot of young women “are of two minds,” said Stephanie Coontz, director of research at the Council on Contemporary Families, a research organization. “On one hand, they’re proud of their achievements, and they think they want a man who shares house chores and child care. But on the other hand they’re scared by their own achievement, and they’re a little nervous having a man who won’t be the main breadwinner. These are old tapes running in their head: ‘This is how you get a man.’ ”

YOUNG affluent women say they are learning to advertise their good fortune in a manner very different from their male counterparts. For men, it is accepted, even desirable, to flaunt their high status. Not so for many women.

“Very, very early in a date,” said Anna Rosenmann, 28, who founded a company called Eco Consulting LA, in Los Angeles, and earns up to $150,000 a year, “a man will drop comments on how much his sales team had made for the year, which meant his bonus was blah, blah, blah.”

But, she said, “that’s not how we were raised.”

Instead, she said, she starts out dates being discreet. “I don’t talk about myself,” she said. “When people ask me, I’m going to be very honest. But I definitely don’t say, ‘My name’s Anna, I’m 28 and I own a business.’ ”

Ms. Rosenmann said that dating considerably older men helps her avoid innuendos from younger men who feel threatened by her professional success. She said that when she has gone out at night with men her own age and has to turn in early to be fresh for work, they have commented , “Oh, Anna’s an adult, she has a real job.”

So as not to flaunt her own salary, Lori Weiss, a 29-year-old lawyer in Manhattan, has found herself clipping price tags off expensive clothes she buys on shopping binges, or hiding shopping bags in the closet just so men she was dating would not see them lying around and feel threatened by her spending power.

“A lot of guys don’t want to admit they have a problem with it,” she said, referring to income disparity. “They don’t want to be ‘that guy.’ But I think it’s ingrained.”

She said one boyfriend “wasn’t too comfortable with me paying for things” on dates, so to make him feel better, she would surrender to his wishes. The two would just “stay home and cook, or just get something cheap,” she said. “We’d skip a movie.”

Women said the income disparity becomes obvious in all facets of dating: where you live, what you like to do for fun and how you travel. It often comes down to minimizing who they are — successful, focused women — with their dates, who may be lagging a bit behind.

Although these women often say it is men who have issues around their higher salaries, sometimes it is the women themselves who are uncomfortable with the role reversal.

Hilary Rowland, 28, bought her first condominium when she was 18, using money she had earned from an online business started when she was 15. Last spring, Ms. Rowland, who lives in New York, started dating a 34-year-old musician.

“I usually always fly business or first,” she said in an e-mail message. “The one trip where he paid for the flight — we stayed at a friend’s place — he didn’t tell me the details, then flew us economy on a 6 a.m. flight with a two-hour stop-over, from Salt Lake City, to save money. I would have rather paid myself and flew business at a regular hour.”

“When we broke up,” she added, “he was upset that I gave my ‘ex’ more gifts than I gave him. Meanwhile, the only gift I’d gotten from him was a small notepad.”

Ms. Rowland, like some other women interviewed, said that she has come to the conclusion that it would be easier to date someone in the same economic bracket.

“I love traveling, going to the opera and good restaurants,” she said. “It doesn’t have to be Per Se, but good food is important in my life. It’s sometimes hard to maintain the lifestyle I’m used to when I’m in a relationship with a guy who makes less than me, since I don’t want to be paying for the guy I’m with all the time.”

The discomfort over who pays for what seems to be not really about money, plain and simple. Instead, it is suggestive of the complex psychology of what many of these women expect from their dates (for him to be a traditional breadwinner) and what they think they should expect (Oh, I just want him to be a nice guy).

On a first date at a lounge in Hell’s Kitchen, Thrupthi Reddy, 28, a brand strategist in Manhattan, watched her date down several cocktails to her one, then not even flinch when she handed the waitress her credit card. Initially miffed, she recognized her own contradictions.

“You wonder if you’re being a hypocrite,” she recalled, “because all date long I’m telling him how independent I was, and how annoying it was that men wouldn’t date strong independent women.” (The relationship ended after six months.)

Michael R. Cunningham, a psychologist who teaches in the communication department at the University of Louisville, conducted a survey of college women to see if, upon graduation, they would prefer to settle down with a high school teacher who has short workdays, summers off and spare energy to help raise children, or with a surgeon who earns eight times as much but works brutal hours. Three-quarters of the women said they would choose the teacher.

The point, Professor Cunningham said, was that young professionally oriented women have no problem dating down if the man is secure, motivated in his own field and emotionally supportive.

At least, that’s what their responses are in surveys. Talk about the subject with women a bit older — those who have been out of college long enough to be more hardened — and what you hear is ambivalence, if not downright hostility, about the income disparity.

Jade Wannell, 25, a producer at a Chicago ad agency who lives in a high-rise apartment building, started dating a 29-year-old administrator at a trucking company last year. “He was really sweet,” she said. But “he didn’t work many hours and ended up hanging out at home a lot. I was bored and didn’t feel challenged. He would finish work at 3 and want to go to the bar. The college way of life is still in them at that age. All they want to do is drink with the boys on Saturday. I was like ‘Let’s go to an art gallery’ and all he wanted to do was go to the bars.”

TO her, his lack of income masked a greater problem: a lack of drive.

“I have to say that I didn’t like his career, I didn’t think he had the goals of someone I would eventually like to be with or have respect for,” she said, adding, “It wasn’t the job, it was the passion.”

Unyi Agba, 27, an advertising executive with a small firm in Boston, almost always dates professional men, but when she goes out with someone earning less money, there is tension. “This is a topic that’s traveled in my own female circles a lot in the last year,” she said. Across a restaurant table with a man who earns less, “it’s never explicitly said, but there are nuances,” she said. “Things are said like, ‘Boy I’m going to be really broke after this dinner.’ "

And her response?

“Silence.” 

 Okay, guys, what are YOUR thoughts on this thorny issue?

 

58 Comments »Dating Tips & Advice

Who Pays For The First Date?

A few years ago, I went out with a woman three times in a couple of weeks. We had great chemistry, and despite the fact that I was a customer service representative at JDate pulling in barely $30K, I’d paid for everything. First date was $60. Second date was $90. The third date was brunch the morning after the second date. She’d ordered a dozen bagels and then realized she’d forgotten her wallet. No big deal. An innocent mistake. She generously offered to pick up our next date. 

She called me at work the following day to tell me of a play that sounded like fun. She said she was busy at work and asked if I could find out if there were tickets available. No problem. I called the theater and learned there were only six left. What’s a guy to do? No big deal, I bought a pair of tickets and figured she’d pick up dinner before we went out. 

After our $40 meal, she put down her credit card and went to the bathroom. When she came back, she noticed that I didn’t put in my credit card to pick up or split the check. Upon which she glared at me and said, with a ton of venom and not a shred of irony: "What am I, your sugar mama?!"

Yeah, being a guy isn’t always the most rewarding thing in the world. But what are you gonna do? I’ve stopped wondering about what’s "fair" and have decided to embrace the system I’ve inherited. In this system, a guy pays unquestionably, and if a woman offers to pay, he is supposed to say no. At least on the first few dates. Or as long as she’s being courted. Or maybe always. It depends on the woman. We can never know unless we let down our guard and allow her to pick up a check. And by then, it’s often too late to justify your behavior.

This is a quandary all right and there is no one right answer. Until now. As your friendly neighborhood single dating coach, I’m going to give you the definitive rulebook on how to negotiate this tricky territory, once and for all….

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62 Comments »Dating Tips & Advice, Online Dating Tips & Advice

How Do You Overcome Shyness and a Lack of Confidence on a Date with a Guy?

Evan,

I recently read your blog entry regarding dating non conversationalists. I consider myself a very outgoing person, and can usually carry on a conversation with anyone. My problem is that I freeze up when I talk to guys. I can’t seem to come up with anything to say, I become shy, quiet and introverted. I think it is that I am afraid to look or say something "un-cool". I had a little self confidence until a few years ago, and didn’t "date" anyone until I was 23. I feel like I am now going through what most people go through in High School or College, but at a later time.

Is this a common problem? If so, any advice on how to overcome dating shyness?


Jessica

Dear Jessica,

There is never MORE to talk about than when you know absolutely NOTHING about someone.

However, your question is an important one, because it’s something that my coaching clients ask me somewhat regularly.

”What should I talk about?”

And, as I see it, unless you’ve already covered the topics of his work, his family, where he lives, how long he’s lived there, what he aspires to, how he enjoys dating, and his various tastes in movies, literature, music, and travel, you should probably have plenty to say. Especially if he’s kind enough to ask you a few questions as well.

Granted, I have a little diarrhea of the mouth and could probably use a few kicks under the table to shut me up at times. But the point remains the same. You can talk about pretty much ANYTHING on a date. Yes to politics. Yes to religion. Yes to sex. Yes to ex-boyfriends. As long as you’re not putting down another’s opinion, or pining for a former lover, you should be pretty safe.

As you can tell from your own expreience, the worst thing you can do is worry about what you’re going to say. Fear being uncool, and you may actually become uncool. The coolest people I know are those comfortable in their own skin. Nerds who embrace being nerds? Very cool. Average guy posing as a "cool" guy? Uncool.

And let’s face it: occasionally you’ll stick your foot in your mouth and say something stupid. That’s life. You just need the confidence to play it off afterwards. Hell, that’s what always kept me going. I can literally write a book on all the foolish things I’ve said or done on dates, and I’m sure my ex’s can write another two volumes about my idiocy. All you can do is recognize your mistakes and attempt not to repeat them. Just know that the more you tie yourself up with worry, the less likely you are to be your authentic self. I can’t help but to think of a baseball player overthinking a big at-bat, or an actor freezing on an audition. The only way to succeed in something this visceral is to turn off your brain and get out of your own way.

This reminds me of a personal anecdote. It was 2004. My first book had come out and a Match.com prospect had gone out to get it in advance. Research, I suppose. When we were talking on the phone prior to our first date, she confessed that she was really nervous about meeting.

“Don’t you get nervous before a date?” she asked.

I paused for a second, considering.

“No…actually I don’t.”

I thought about it some more.

“I just figure that if I’m being myself on the date, and you don’t like me, there’s not much I can do about it. Why spend any time worrying beforehand?”

And it’s true. Worrying has never helped anybody become a better date. Being on time does. Asking questions does. Staying positive does. But what can I possibly gain by going into the experience like I’m a nervous college graduate interviewing for a job?

My advice to you, Jessica, is to create a subtle shift in your thinking. Instead of thinking that you’re the nervous college graduate, pretend that you’re the boss – confident, secure, not determined to impress. Trust me, you’ll be more impressive.

The best advice I can give about how to "be" on a date is this: Think about the people in the world with whom you’re most comfortable. Your mom, your high school friend, your sister, whatever. How are you when you’re around them? Comfortable. Honest. Vulnerable. Silly. Real. Try bringing that same persona and energy to a date. If that’s you at your best, why would you choose to be any other way ?

I know there’s a big difference between talking the talk and walking the walk, but I’m telling you – if you go into each date with the assumption of success, you’re more likely to have real success.

 

1 Comment »Dating Tips & Advice

Are Women More Likely Than Men to Require Chemistry to Go On A Second Date?

Dear Evan,

Is it my imagination, or are women, generally speaking, much more likely than men to expect some sort of lightning or magic on a first date for them to consider going on a 2nd date? I’m not talking about chemistry, which everyone wants, but some sort of overwhelming emotional response that causes “butterflies,” etc

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard women say that they had a nice first date with so and so, but there were no butterflies, no shooting stars, and therefore they have turned down a request for a 2nd date. Yes, there was chemistry, but no visceral reaction.

I find this a bit difficult to comprehend, because I personally never expect to see shooting stars on a first date. And if I do see stars on a first date, I push them aside because experience has taught me that in most cases those stars were just a temporary thing and my first impression of a woman from just one date is always incomplete. I mean, a first date is not the real world, it’s not the way people usually are most of the time. If nothing else, both parties are usually a bit nervous and on their best behavior, so you don’t get to know the real them. (I start feeling butterflies after a few dates, when I get a more complete picture of the woman, and I like the picture that is emerging.

Anyway, is my take on this whole thing wrong? Are men, generally speaking, also expecting lightning from the first date in order to consider a second date? Or, on the other hand, are women generally more rational about this than the impression of them that I have?

Roger

Dear Roger,

First of all, thanks for writing such a thoughtful and articulate question. Your insight about “shooting stars” being temporary is a priceless one, and we’re going to get back to that shortly. But as to whether women are more rational than you’re giving them credit for, the answer is yes

Despite your very mature view about how one date is only a glimpse of the whole person, what your question misses is a broader perspective on “how women are”. Instead, it’s only reflected through your views, your experiences, and your eyes. You go out with a bunch of women, they tell you that they didn’t feel the “click” or the “chemistry”, and you determine that women are looking for magic on the first date. This is a logical conclusion, except for one thing: you’re not going out with any men. And men, in my experience, do the exact same thing and more.

True, women dissect men on dates like frogs in ninth grade labs. From how he talks to the waiter, to whether he tucks in his shirt, to how quickly he reaches for the check, the details are generally quite important to women. (As always, I’m generalizing here, so cut me some slack). As for men, our needs are a little simpler when we determine if we want a second date. As I see it, there are only two main criteria: 1) Did I have fun with her? And 2) Is she attractive enough to sleep with? As to how she dresses or whether she’s late or talks with her mouth full…yeah, we notice, but we’ll pretty much forgive such things if she’s both cool and sexy. SO……

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5 Comments »Dating Tips & Advice

Can You Dress Sexy Without Seeming Slutty?

Dear Evan,

What is a good way to get a guy to back off on the physical stuff when you first start dating? I dress very sexy and have a nice figure, am attractive and feel like guys are always all over me right away to get physical. I feel stupid saying, “its only our first date,” and moving their hands because it sounds immature to point out the number of dates, but I dont know what else to do! I am not a prude by any means, but I usually like to wait until around date 4 to have sex. Also, if I say things like that I dressed as a dominatrix for Halloween and that I sleep naked, is that considered teasing or flirting? I really dont know. Maybe I mislead guys by talking about these things and that is why they are all over me. Oh, and please dont tell me to start wearing turtlenecks and khaki pants when I go out because that is not going to happen ; )! Thanks!

Natalie

Dear Natalie,

Let’s see if we can agree on one thing first:

If Britney Spears hates the paparazzi, you certainly can’t blame her. But if she can’t deal with having her every move scrutinized, she shouldn’t have become a celebrity. That’s the unfortunate price of doing business. If she doesn’t like it, she can become a fry cook or a flight attendant or a neurosurgeon. Right?

So if Natalie insists on dressing sexy to show off her nice figure, she can’t be too surprised when men want to get a premature sampling of the merchandise. I’m not saying “you’re asking for it”. I am saying that dressing sexy has that effect on men. If you don’t want to have that effect on men…don’t dress sexy.

Assuming a guy is just putting his arm around you (as opposed to physically assaulting you), this is all pretty normal behavior. And the reason for it is not simply that men are obsessed with sex (which is true), but rather that they’re tantalized by the possibility that they can get it right away. And although you describe yourself as a fourth date girl, every guy knows one thing: Rules are meant to be broken.

Which is why we don’t pay much attention to them. This works both ways. He tells you he’s never getting hitched, but he marries the next woman he dates. She says she never dates short guys, but ends up with a dude who’s 5’6”. For the right person, all bets are off. And nowhere is this more obvious than with sex. No might usually mean no. But it can also mean maybe, and very often, yes.

And when you’re showing off your curves, Natalie, you’re bringing sex to the forefront of men’s minds and giving them the hope that they can convince you to break your rules. Because for every woman who says she never goes home with a guy on the first date, there’s another one who’s waking up next to him the next morning.

If you want to keep better control of your date’s behavior, you need to be a bit more conscientious about how you’re coming across. Listen, I don’t know any guy who isn’t tantalized by a hint of cleavage and the suggestion that there might be some risqué costumes in your closet. But if you find this is consistently putting you in an uncomfortable position, who’s job is it to change tactics? Them? Or you?

I’d say scale it back a little bit. You can look sexy without looking slutty, and you can talk about sex without seeming to come onto them. Just sit on the other side of the table, don’t have too much to drink, and make it clear that you’re interested with your words, not your body.

7 Comments »Dating Tips & Advice, Sex & Relationship Advice