Mar20
Why Would a Guy Act Like He Likes Me if He Doesn’t Want to Take Me Out Again?
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Hi Evan.
I’m 30 years old, European, attractive, tall girl. I have a strange situation. The same scenario happened to me at least 5 times in the last few months. I go on a first date and I can tell for sure that a guy is interested in me. He invites me for drinks after we had dinner and he makes plans for our future dates by saying "I should take you to this great restaurant or we should go to see this play…" And then I never hear back from him. My guy friends say that I just intimidate men or that I just meet the wrong guys and all they want is just sex. What do you think?
Thanks,
Alena
Thanks for the transcontinental note, Alena. Although I’ve answered this question before, it’s still a timeless one.
You have fallen victim to the most common mistake women make in dating. It’s the hardest message to hear, so please don’t shoot the messenger.
Mistake #10: Thinking That Your Great Date Actually Meant Something
Have you ever had a man say how much he likes you, how sexy you are, and how he’s serious about finding a long-term relationship? Ever have an amazing date where the chemistry was great, the conversation flowed, and you hooked up with him afterwards?
Have you ever had a man do all of these things and then NOT call?
No, you’re not crazy or delusional.
Your mistake is thinking that what a man says on a date actually means something. It doesn’t. It means he’s being in the moment. So don’t put too much weight on a great date. The only way you can tell how a man REALLY feels about you is by how quickly he follows up for another date.
I walked her to her car and we made out for ten minutes, standing on the street. I never heard from her again.
One of the first JDates I ever went on was back in probably 1999. She was a doctor, went to Harvard, came from a similar East Coast family. We went out for drinks at a local hotel bar and stayed out until the place closed at 2. I walked her to her car and we made out for ten minutes, standing on the street.
I never heard from her again.
What does this MEAN?
Nothing. Absolutely nothing….
Continued on next page >>Filed Under Dating Tips & Advice, Sex & Relationship Advice
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Steve Mar 20th 2008 at 08:37 am 1
Alena;
Don’t feel bad, it happened to me too a few months ago. I asked a woman I met in a cooking class out. We met for a coffee date on a work night. We talked for about 3 hours straight. Those 3 hours felt like 15 min and it seemed to me like she had a genuine smile of “being into it” on her face the whole time. Yet, when I called her up for a second date I got the next best thing to cold silence. Cryptic answers spoken only when spoken too, punctuated with lame excuses. A few months later we saw each other at a community event. She looked away with a look of disgust on her face and pretended not to see me.
Maybe she thought I was cheap when I got so caught up in the conversation that I did not buy anything from the coffee shop. Maybe she got offended by giving her a hug at the end of the date. Maybe, maybe, maybe. I’ll never know. Her loss.
As Evan wrote, you will never know and you will drive yourself crazy trying to figure it out. Your best bet is to shrug it off and encourage people by being gracious when they do give you feedback in the future.
Selena Mar 20th 2008 at 09:01 am 2
When I read things like this the first thought that comes to my mind is: Uh, was alcohol involved? The great exaggerator, and releaser of inhibitions. Second is, “Uh, I wonder if they aren’t over an ex yet?” Evan addressed both these. He’s right I think on all counts, but these two things seem to be very common in why great first dates don’t seem to lead beyond. It’s not you, it’s being caught up in the moment and them coming back to their personal reality the next day–whatever that might be.
Lance Mar 20th 2008 at 03:49 pm 3
Something is fishy here. If Alena is tall, attractive, and Euro, she should have ZERO problem getting dates and est. relationships with guys. There must be something wrong with her: her looks or her personality. Why is she intimidating? That needs to be explored. If she’s truly hot, then she’s the pick of the litter and can pretty much choose her next boyfriend. Women like this just don’t exist. Either they have bf’s, or don’t because they choose to. If I’m wrong, please debate…
Anyway, to EMK’s thesis. I agree with everything there, but I have to point out women DO THE EXACT SAME THING. This is your basic flaking. She has a great time. You kiss. You never hear from her again. You have a great conversation. You get a number. You call and she never answers. You never see her again. Guys and girls flake equally. It comes with the territory of dating. Selena is correct above, as soon as you part ways, you fall out of “state,” and you just let things slide apart. This is one of my favorite subjects, so maybe I’ll blog about it…
wildgingersnap Mar 20th 2008 at 10:56 pm 4
I have had dates like this where the guy showed every sign of being interested: he was super-attentive, tried to extend the date as long as possible, talked about future dates — and then didn’t follow up.
I think what happens, with online dating at least, is you show up for that first meeting and you look better than your photos, you’re fun, (normal!), there’s lots to talk about…and you’re both so relieved and excited it creates an inflated sense of compatability/chemistry.
In my experience, some of these guys _are_ relationship-minded but after they come down from the euphoria of the date and are thinking more clearly, they realize that even though they had a great time, they don’t see real potential for the long-term and it’s just easier to disappear rather than attempt some half-hearted follow-through.
That’s my hypothesis, and I’m sticking to it.
It helps me move on quickly without bitterness or baggage.
(Yeah, the disconnect between their words and actions is a little disconcerting and makes you doubt your judgment sometimes, but you just have to train yourself to manage your expectations until the verdict is in, i.e. you do or don’t hear from them.)
Selena Mar 21st 2008 at 06:13 am 5
Steve,
I’ve been thinking about the 3 hour date you described and what happened. You know, if I spent 3 hours with someone in some type of restaurant, I would have become hungry. If my date didn’t suggest ordering some food, (or going somewhere else to get food if the menu at the coffee place was limited) ya know, I probably would have thought he was cheap too.
Thing is though, I wouldn’t have been shy about it. I would have either told my date I was hungry and wanted to order off the menu, or I would have decided I needed to go home and eat something if I didn’t want anything there. Need food, make decision, simple.
Perhaps your date was playing by some kind of “rules” that in her mind, you should have made an offer for dinner after an hour or so? Dunno, but the situation sounds like a case of expectations not being communicated to me. The fact she gave you a look of disgust when you ran into her months later speaks volumes about her, not you.
Steve Mar 21st 2008 at 08:21 am 6
Selena;
It wasn’t a restaurant it was a chain coffee shop, similar to Starbucks and I think I did ask about getting something. Maybe “disgust” was too strong of a word perhaps an “on no, its him” look would be a better description.
I could look at other clues, but I have heard Evan’s conclusions before from other people and it is fairly internalized in me now. I will never know, it could be many things, perhaps something I never thought of, she is only one person, I still had a nice weeknight evening and life goes on.
Michele Mar 21st 2008 at 08:35 am 7
wildgingersnap.
I have actually printed your last observation(s)……hypothesis. It sounds so simple and direct, while making near perfect sense.
Only glitch is when he doesn’t call, it does hurt, expecially if I mistakingly thought there was a connection. It’s a tough call being human.
That said, have a second date with “Mr. Wonderful” on Tuesday. He has called everyday since he’s out of town on biz. Now I won’t slash my wrists if he flakes out, but will probably need a week or two to bounce back.
$Francisco Mar 21st 2008 at 09:00 am 8
If EITHER party has interest in the other, I say they should say so not just at the end of the date but also AFTER the date. Be it a email, text or phone call, let the other person know that you had a good time and would like to do it again. Better yet, suggest a venue and time for the next outing. It lets the other person know in no uncertain terms that you’d like to see them again.
JuJu Mar 21st 2008 at 10:28 am 9
What exactly was Evan (in part) answering? I didn’t see anything in the girl’s letter about having sex with the guy on the first date. How could “he only wanted sex” apply if she didn’t? Am I missing something?
Steve, the woman exhibited every sign of inadequacy with her subsequent behavior. What on earth did you do to her that was so horrible? Consider yourself lucky to have revealed her character so quickly.
I have a topical story to share. Went out with this one guy, not particularly attractive (just waaaaay too skinny for my taste), but very intelligent, and that turned me on. We made plans for the next weekend, which was a 3-day holiday weekend. Anyhow, Saturday night he doesn’t show up at the specified time or call. Calls me a few hours later and says that he is in a hospital with the parents of a friend who was in car accident earlier that day and is presently in a coma. Well, okay.
Next day (Sunday) he calls me to make plans for Monday and to reassure me that the “stand-up” had nothing to do with me (honestly, the thought didn’t even enter my mind, although I don’t think I said that aloud).
And what do you know? Monday he never showed or called. My entire weekend was shot! I had other offers which I declined in favor of this a**hole (certainly will never allow that to happen again, regardless of how smitten with the guy).
In his case, btw, I know for sure he was not over his ex (he was engaged and actually caught her in bed with someone else), but that’s no excuse for such inconsideration.
What the hell was THAT?
Marc Mar 21st 2008 at 12:26 pm 10
Alena, you said you “can tell for sure that a guy is interested in me,” but can the guy tell for sure that you’re interested in him? When the guy offers to take you to that great restaurant “next time,” do you act sincerely interested, or do you just say “okay” without much enthusiasm. What’s your body language like when you respond to his request to see you again? Do you smile? We guys like to know that if we do call, we’re not gonna get blown off. If your friends are telling you you’re coming off as intimidating, you may want to rethink how you act on dates.
vino Mar 21st 2008 at 01:09 pm 11
This can be the whole ‘war story’ thread.
Simply put, many, many people of both sexes just vanish, rather than have a difficult conversation and be potentially called a ‘jerk’ or a ‘bitch’ to his/her face.
This falls into the category of something I cannot control, so I do not worry about it. It’s going to happen. Do not be emotional about it. It is disrespectful. If you come across him/her again, treat them accordingly.
Steve Mar 21st 2008 at 01:12 pm 12
wildgingersnap;
I used to have the same problem about taking early rejection in dating too personally. In one of the links Evan has in his post above, there is an article he wrote for women and online dating, but it applies nicely here. He asks the reader to think about all of the people s/he looked at on a dating site and decided not to pursue. He asks the reader to think about how rational it would be for those people to feel trashed. It works both ways. There could really be no problem with you or the other person, just no fit.
Lori Mar 21st 2008 at 01:12 pm 13
Juju, I’ve also dated men who weren’t over their exes. They think they want a new relationship to help them get over it, but they usually find they are still pining over their ex. I had one guy start to cry when I saw a pic of his ex wife, and told him she was beautiful. That told me everything I needed to know right there.
Alena, I’ve met guys also where we hit it off, and then they never call. I’ve met flakes, wierdos, players, jerks, and plenty where we just weren’t interested in each other…but it really is true, when the right one comes along you know it.
I have met the sweetest guy who brings me flowers, cards, we talk daily, we see each other every chance we get. We really seem to be meant for each other. Now if this one flakes on me, I’ll probably give up on dating. ; )
TMan Mar 21st 2008 at 02:12 pm 14
Alena, I am the type of guy you describe in your thread. I’ve gone out with women, only to never call them back. Why would I do such a thing?
A few reasons…
Maybe I scheduled the date in the first place simply because I was bored. “Jen seemed like a nice girl…maybe I’ll go out with her again on Friday and have a good time.”
Maybe I wasn’t that into her on the first date, but I wanted to give her a second chance because I saw some potential.
Maybe something about her that annoyed me on the second date REALLY annoyed me on the third date and I decided I had had enough.
Maybe I just decided this girl wasn’t worth the effort.
Maybe I had better options.
What NEVER happens is that I will intentionally sabotage a date just to get a message across. When I’m out with someone, I try to have the best time possible. I’m polite, and always conduct myself as if the date is being videotaped and will be sent to all my family members. (Well, maybe I don’t act that way the whole time, but you get the drift).
Simone Mar 21st 2008 at 08:48 pm 15
No offense, TMan, but you don’t sound polite at all. You sound kind of hostile. I don’t see what your “trying to have the best time possible” before you decide that you are really just too good for the woman you are with has to do with Alena’s situation.
Don’t worry, Alena — other fish in the sea! (Thank heavens for that!)
wildgingersnap Mar 21st 2008 at 10:35 pm 16
Actually, I take the same approach as TMan — just because I don’t want to share my life with someone doesn’t mean I can’t try to have a good time when we’re out. So I’m sure there have been a few guys (the guy who waxed rhapsodical about his anniversary edition Rolex comes to mind) who were puzzled when I didn’t want to go out again because they interpreted my polite enthusiasm as interest.
Michele — I have had several enlightening experiences where I met up with someone who disappeared after the first date and resurfaced a few months or a year later. I usually meet up with them, if only to satisfy my curiosity, and without exception, I’ve realized that we didn’t really have a special connection or compatibility.
You really don’t have that much information after just one date. So now when something doesn’t work out, I just trust that it wasn’t meant to be and move on with minimum pang.
TMan Mar 22nd 2008 at 04:28 am 17
@Simone,
I thought my post had everything to do with Alena’s situation. She’s asking why guys act like they have a great time on dates, only to never call her again. I gave some reasons. I think Alena may have to understand why the date happened in the first place. Maybe the guy was bored/lonely/between other women.
And let’s not pretend women don’t do the same exact thing. I’ve had several girls who acted like they were completely interested (”What are you doing next weekend? I can’t believe I met someone like you!” often followed by a trip to the bedroom and her/me leaving the next morning) only to never hear from them again.
PS: Except in well justified situations, I don’t feel like I’m “too good” for anyone. Usually I just feel like we aren’t a good match. I’ve met lots of women that were really cool and I admired, but I just wasn’t attracted to them as romantic partners. Of course, I’m often on the other end, too, and I don’t mean to imply I’m not. That’s just life. No matter who you are, someone isn’t going to be interested for whatever reason.
Selena Mar 22nd 2008 at 04:58 am 18
I liked Tman’s point: “What NEVER happens is that I will intentionally sabotage a date just to get a message across.”
Certainly being polite on a date and trying to have a good time with the person you are with, (even though you’ve concluded they’re not the one for you) is better than the alternative: being rude, sulky, behaving like an ass.
Perhaps sometimes we just misinterpret interest as simply good manners. Maybe because we want to.
LV Mar 22nd 2008 at 05:52 am 19
This is a rare thing: every so often, I’d have what I thought was a good first date with a guy, only for him to e-mail me later saying something along the lines of “you seem like a great person, but I didn’t feel the chemistry that I was looking for”.
I absolutely appreciated that — in my opinion, it’s MUCH more polite than just dropping off the face of the earth.
However — I’ve discussed this with a guy friend, and his feeling was, he’d find that sort of response insulting. For him, the lack of a phone call says enough.
So — you can’t please everyone!
JerseyGirl Mar 22nd 2008 at 08:02 am 20
I’ve had this experience as well and it’s nice to know that there is something tall attractive chicks from Europe have in common with short chicks from New Jersey….:)
Anyway, when I’ve had this happen it stings if I like the guy but I look at it this way. He just isn’t the guy for me. God has something else in store and I consider it more of an experience I’m not suppose to have to be the kind of woman I need to be. That is not to say that this person is “bad”. It’s just to say that they aren’t meant to be part of my life and have influence in it.
I find that in today’s culture, all around people treat things more disposably. It is reflected in how we treat the things that surround us. From natural resources, the environment, cars, computers, cell phones to even people. It’s not really a good thing but I think that all around alot of people struggle with dating because of the disposable mindset that seems to be a big theme in modern culture.
Oh and to poster Lance: I disagree with your assumption that something must be wrong with this girl if she can’t seem to acquire a man for long term dating status. Maybe she keeps picking the same type of man, I don’t know. I do know that if all the good ones were taken as you put it, then everyone in a relationship would be happy and healthy. And with the rate of divorce and break-ups, cheating and the million other issues that happen within relationships, we all know that isn’t true.
Simone Mar 22nd 2008 at 08:38 am 21
My offense at TMan’s response wasn’t the not calling because there wasn’t a connection, it was the tone and the “I’ll ask her out b/c I’m bored” — “I wasn’t that into her but I asked her out anyway,” etc. Which, as I have said before about bad dating behavior — probably isn’t the way he presented it to her when he was asking her out. Fundamentally, it’s dishonest and maybe even coercive. It’s using someone b/c you need or want something and you suspect that the person isn’t going to go along unless you misrepresent where you are coming from. And if someone annoys you and you just sit there politely smiling, well, that isn’t honest, either. The good news is that after a few experiences with guys who are just into dating to see what they can get (a hostile form of neediness), or who are confused, or just playing games, you learn to spot them. It’s hard to fake genuine enthusiasm or a real connection. Again, thank heavens for the other fish in the sea!
JuJu Mar 22nd 2008 at 10:30 am 22
LV,
that happened to me only once, but what I think of this type of behavior is that it’s awfully presumptuous. It was also the way the guy worded the letter - “without causing me any pain and misleading me further” he has to say good-bye. It downright cracked me up. I thought of replying, “I am going to hang myself immediately”, but resisted the temptation. ;=)
See, what made the situation so absurd was that after one glance at him I wanted to go back home. He did not at all look like his pictures, turned out to be unattractive and somewhat overweight, and he lied about his height! I also am tactful on my dates regardless of whether I can imagine being with this person, and it was puzzling how he mistook that for interest.
Ron Mar 22nd 2008 at 10:50 am 23
This is probably the best advice ever given my Evan IMO.
Life, not just dating, is filled with ambiguity. The sooner you stop trying to psychobabbelize it and stop trying to figure it all out, the sooner you’ll be happier.
Took me a long time to learn that. Thanks for the reminder, Evan.
Lance Mar 22nd 2008 at 12:44 pm 24
@Simone/TMan: Tman’s comment is spot-on and represents what’s actually going thru our heads when we flake on our dates. It’s nothing personal. This is what the girl is thinking too when she flakes on us. Flakes aren’t polite…that’s why it’s a flake. If you’re a regular dater, you’ll flake and get flaked on all the time.
I have a female friend who goes on like 8 dates w/different dudes per month…she flakes on all but maybe 1 of them. She doesn’t have the time or energy to make smooth withdrawals. The thing is, she’s a perfectly nice, intelligent gal. In everything else, she’s considerate and polite to the max. When it comes to dating tho, she has to play the game…
See, the problem is if you try to make a polite exit, the other person might get the wrong idea and try to cling. It’s just better to be decisive, abrupt, and quick about it. It might sting at first, but it saves a world of grief down the road. It took me a long time to make that realization, mostly because I HATED getting flaked on, but now I know it’s just a part of dating.
Steve Mar 22nd 2008 at 02:32 pm 25
Ron Mar 22nd 2008 at 10:50 am 23
This is probably the best advice ever given my Evan IMO.
Life, not just dating, is filled with ambiguity. The sooner you stop trying to psychobabbelize it and stop trying to figure it all out, the sooner you’ll be happier.
Amen.
The best you can do is ask for it when there is an opportunity for feeback and make it comfortable for the other person to do you the favor of giving it to you. After that, it is out of your control and may likely have nothing to do with you. You are better off putting it behind you.
JerseyGirl Mar 22nd 2008 at 02:46 pm 26
“it was the tone and the “I’ll ask her out b/c I’m bored” —”
I have to agree with Simone that is rough. I highly doubt any guy would want a woman to only accept a date with him because she was bored and would get a free meal out of the deal.
JuJu, you reminded me of a similar dating experience where I went out with this guy that turned out to be a wack job. We just went out for coffee and I was so ready to leave when he was like..”I think we should be friends”. I felt like saying “friends? Heck dude, I don’t even want to remember you live in the same zip code.”
Sara Mar 22nd 2008 at 03:50 pm 27
It’s happened to me and I’ve done it to others. You just never know what someone has going on in his or her life that they don’t reveal on a first date. Like everyone else is saying, you just can’t take it personal.
Markus Mar 23rd 2008 at 09:51 am 28
I can’t read through all these responses yet so let me say for the record…this sucks, and it’s why I hate dating. F this whole lousy process.
JerseyGirl Mar 23rd 2008 at 02:47 pm 29
That’s the spirit. :/
Steve Mar 23rd 2008 at 04:07 pm 30
Markus Mar 23rd 2008 at 09:51 am 28
I can’t read through all these responses yet so let me say for the record…this sucks, and it’s why I hate dating. F this whole lousy process.
I’ve said that more than a few times myself. It has really helped me to read this blog and to talk with other people who are dating. It clued me in that it is a COMMON experience that isn’t happening to JUST ME because I am a FAULTY person. Since it is so common I keep reading about it over and over again. That is drilling it into me that it isn’t personal and my emotional reactions have been getting progressively better about taking it.
Simone Mar 23rd 2008 at 04:30 pm 31
Thanks, Jersey Girl, for understanding what I was saying. I wasn’t telling anyone not to “flake” or that “flaking” is rude. Who cares if you go out with someone once and it’s all fun and then nothing more happens? I was pointing out that the motivations for dating to begin with that TMan listed are not polite at all, that they are kind of user-y. In redux, basically he is saying “I’m only using you b/c I’m bored” or “I don’t like you but I’ve got nothing better to do” or “I’m only trying to have fun” so “don’t be upset that I blow you off.” I certainly wouldn’t be upset if someone like that blew me off — he’d be doing me a favor! And no, TMan, I never said that only men do this — I’ve known women who treated men like this. But in truth I don’t hang around with people (men or women) who have such a crude view of human relationships. I am perfectly happy to be by myself or with known-quantity friends than to spend time on a date with someone I am not really interested in — I have a full life and therefore only spend time with people I am truly interested in or might be interested. I value my time.
Simone Mar 23rd 2008 at 04:31 pm 32
Oh, and my relationships. Even if they are just at the beginning stages.
Markus Mar 24th 2008 at 04:20 am 33
Sorry Jerseygirl. I was married for 10 years. I want to be married or at least living with someone again. I’m not going to accept the wrong person but I do not want to be “dating”. This is a means to an end.
Eda Mar 24th 2008 at 04:56 am 34
In the dating world where some of us feel that there are too few victories and high points and so many disappointments, I think that a great date does mean something, and I think it means something that doesn’t need to be dismissed even if the outcome isn’t what we desire. I think a great date means that two people, at the very least, have good manners. It means that they value making people feel good and they enjoy having a good time. It may even mean that two genuinely good people have had the opportunity to meet each other. I agree that what a great date doesn’t mean is that there is a mutual connection, a mutual desire for a second date or a long term relationship. It just means that two people shared a pleasant time together. How can that ever be a bad thing? I haven’t always felt this way, but I’m now thankful for a fun date even if I never see the guy again. I just know that one day when that fun date turns into something more, I’ll be ready for it.
Michele Mar 24th 2008 at 09:12 am 35
Markus.
I was married for over 20 years so I have a full decade of “bliss” over your plight. From time to time I feel the same way you do….dating can be time consuming, disappointing and not always “fun.”
That said…..after reading your first post (yesterday) went on a literal rampage checking various “dating” sites. Your gloom actually motivated me.
What I have decided to do is become dating proactive — figure I may as well since everything else in my life is guided by positive activism.
What an interesting opportunity I found. 8 minute dating within a 100 mile radius of my present residential venue. Will be more than just a participant…am going to hostess an event. One never knows who might be in attendance. When employing my social skills I always have FUN.
Don’t isolate yourself, Markus. Get back out there and keep an open mind.
Markus Mar 24th 2008 at 09:35 am 36
Good for you Michele. I’m not isolated. Just venting some frustration. Last week I had a great date Tuesday night with a new girl. We’ve been talking and exchanging mails. Thursday night she came over and one thing led to another. We had great sex but I could tell afterwards that she kind of regretted it and now I can’t undo that. It sucks because we had SO much in common. I feel like I’m in purgatory.
Lance Mar 24th 2008 at 10:38 am 37
“Love is a battlefield.” –Pat Benatar
Have fun and don’t take anything personal, because it’s not. All your dates and encounters are worthy life experiences…how else do you learn about socialization and relationships? Reading books and blogs isn’t enough. From a pickup perspective, this is called “field time,” and it’s irreplaceable. We expect a 1000 rejections and fuckups before we really find those special, awesome connections. The more dates you go on, and hence the more people you meet, the more you realize how little you know about love/sex/relationships/people.
hunter Mar 24th 2008 at 06:52 pm 38
Most single good looking women that I have met, are single because they “choose” to be. Most single good looking women “find” men, when they are good and ready.
hunter Mar 24th 2008 at 06:58 pm 39
To Markus,
Try not to “bare your soul” when dating.
Markus Mar 24th 2008 at 07:09 pm 40
Sorry Lance. Just not getting it. : (
JerseyGirl Mar 24th 2008 at 07:15 pm 41
It’s all good Markus, I was only teasing. I do understand that dating is not always fun. I get frustrated myself. I’d like to get married the first time. Good men are hard to find!
Markus Mar 25th 2008 at 05:57 am 42
Not sure what you mean there Hunter. I don’t know that I “bare my soul” but I am sincere and honest. I play some cards close to the chest but I’m pretty honest. It’s the only way I know how to be.
vino Mar 25th 2008 at 09:48 am 43
Markus,
Not to be flip, but you’ll probably want to carry more bandages (metaphorically speaking) for the additional wounds.
However, kudos for being true to yourself.
lorelei Mar 25th 2008 at 04:14 pm 44
Markus,
I think you sound like a great guy.
L.
Michele Mar 26th 2008 at 07:06 am 45
Markus !!!
I concur with lorelei…..you certainly seem like a great guy.
Although this may not apply to you, a bit of self-disclosure follows. Post-divorce got into a long term relationship that ultimately didn’t work out. Reflecting I now realize that a lot more time was needed for me to heal (and all that other “stuff” that happens when one becomes single). The issues encountered challenged every single belief I ever had. But I dissected each one of them and after some struggles realized just exactly who I am.
What I have done is learn so much about myself. I enjoy being me now. What was previously important to me, (in most cases) is not even an issue now. Am actually rather peaceful within myself however do know that I need to continue “just” being me.
That said, some things just don’t change instantly. I have tried to keep an open/expectation free frame of reference about dating and for the most part have been pretty successful. Success meaning that I am not going to WOW every single gent I meet — nor will he WOW me.
I sense that you are a very moral and warm person, Markus, but also allow yourself the right to be human. Often times we are our own worse critics. Go easy on yourself and remember there is an abundance of truth to taking time to smell the roses.
I do look forward to reading your posts.
Mattie Mar 26th 2008 at 09:00 am 46
Alena, please don’t worry too much about it. Sometimes people go through a run of bad luck. And, in fact, dwelling on it (though this is easier said than done!) only serves to prolong it in a peculiar way. What I mean by this is: if you think “I’ve had too much of X”, you are concentrating on X - and … more X comes along! Aaaargh: buggerit! Life sometimes seems to work like this.
Anyway, maybe these men are a little intimidated by you? Maybe they are just flake-y. Maybe they found someone else or reverted to a previous girlf. Who knows? Frankly, who cares - you certainly shouldn’t. F*** ‘em if they fail to appreciate you: its their loss.
Take Evan’s advice - it’s invariably good - and move on. Enjoy yourself. I wish you all the very best of good fortune.
As for Lorelei and Michele’s comments about Markus: absolutely! I agree wholeheartedly. Markus … ROCKS! Sooner or later the best possible girl for you will appear, Markus. In any event, I have put in a request for you with none other than the Flying Spaghetti Monster; so it’s only a matter of time before that ‘not inconsiderable she’ or ‘lass unparelleled’ is served up to you - con amore (as well as vongole or al sugo) - be patient. We are all rooting for you.
Mattiex
Markus Mar 26th 2008 at 11:02 am 47
Thanks guys. I appreciate the kind words. I just come on here to help a bit and get helped. Mostly because I like communicating about the topic. Anyway, I agree that the process has helped me become more me, which is cool. And it’s helping me learn what I really value. That said, the time, the money (which I’m tight on), the heartbreak in both directions. It’s brutal. I also have to admit that the number 40 looms heavy on my horizon.
Collins Mar 26th 2008 at 04:30 pm 48
From the phrase in the question, “if he doesn’t want to take me out again,” I might surmise that he’s waiting for YOU to take HIM out for the 2nd date. On the 1st date, HE took YOU out, which would mean that YOUR dinner was on HIS dime; he might be waiting for you to return the favor. We guys want to be “special” no less than do women, & this particular guy might be testing your ability & willingness to show him the same generosity that he showed you the 1st time.
JuJu Mar 26th 2008 at 06:35 pm 49
That is just about the most unrealistic explanation I ever heard. I wouldn’t even be able to come up with something like that.
KAREN Mar 27th 2008 at 12:46 am 50
Hello Everyone!
I really appreciate reading all of your comments. Wow! So happy to know that I am not in this “dating scene” alone. I am learning so much from your very valuable statements.
Thank you so much Evan for your wonderful insight into this dating universe. You have made this “dating vortex” so much more easier to understand. I have a much more positive attitude towards dating due to your insightful comments! So happy you have this wonderful Blog.
Much happiness to you all!!
JerseyGirl Mar 27th 2008 at 05:09 am 51
Collin, I think with that attutitude, depending on how strongly you show it to women, it would be a major turn off for most women. Not because we are all here to take advantage of you with free meals. But if a guy can’t spend a few bucks on a nice dinner without feeling like he made a huge contribuation; it’s a little negative. We want to feel like you want to make a nice gesture for us, not that you are keeping score.
I don’t think most women are going to ask a guy out on a second date because women want to be pursued, especially early on in the game. Now if he takes her out, pays; she should at some point contribute something back. Like cook him a meal or something. Maybe it’s just me and I am wrong but I have never asked a guy out for a second date or paid. I let him know if I am interested though if I am of course. If he doesn’t pursue it, he doesn’t like me enough. It’s that simple.
Selena Mar 27th 2008 at 07:52 am 52
JerseyGirl writes:
“Maybe it’s just me and I am wrong but I have never asked a guy out for a second date or paid. I let him know if I am interested though if I am of course. If he doesn’t pursue it, he doesn’t like me enough. It’s that simple.”
No it’s not just you JerseyGirl, I’m the same way. I have to wonder how many dates Collins’ has if this is his expectation?
Victoria Mar 27th 2008 at 08:04 am 53
I have to agree with Hunter “Most single good looking women that I have met, are single because they “choose” to be. Most single good looking women “find” men, when they are good and ready.” I’d like to add that the same goes for guys. The right timing is everything.
I think all single people on dates should just relax, enjoy the moment and not think about a potential future (even whether he/she’ll call again), you don’t have to end up together to cherish the time you had with each other. I’ve had a few absolutely great guys in my life with whom there could be no future for one reason or another but they and I know we had those precious and intimate moments that we will always remember. To me that’s satisfying.
Collins Mar 27th 2008 at 03:18 pm 54
JerseyGirl: “I don’t think most women are going to ask a guy out on a second date because women want to be pursued…” And Selena: “I have to wonder how many dates Collins has if this is his expectation?”
Excuse me, ladies, but you still want us guys always to do the pursuing? I’m sorry, but to me this reeks of acting like objects, like prizes to be chased after & won. I have no desire to treat women like objects, but by the same token I want them not to act like such. In this era of women having jobs & incomes just like the guys do, I’d like them to spend some of that money on dates in either of 2 ways:
1. Go to a restaurant that both parties like, & split the cost.
2. Take turns paying; i.e., on the 1st date he takes her out to where he likes to go & pays for her dinner, then on the 2nd date she treats him to dinner at wherever she likes to go.
Unilateral pursuit is an outworn, unhealthy tradition, whereas MUTUAL PURSUIT would better fit this era of equality. This is one of the few principles on which I will stand my ground, even if I must stand alone. Better alone than with a golddigger!
hunter Mar 27th 2008 at 05:40 pm 55
To victoria,
Sounds as if you have been on some “yummy” dates. Congratulations….
Victoria Mar 28th 2008 at 06:16 pm 56
To hunter,
Thank you! And a “yummy” marriage, which ended tragically, but hey, I don’t despair. I believe there are more beautiful men like my husband out there…not that I am in a hurry, because I know to live each day as tomorrow is not guaranteed.
hunter Mar 31st 2008 at 06:51 am 57
to Victoria,
I am sorry about your husband. Whose in a hurry? I am a half a century old and never married, is that moving too fast?…
Victoria Apr 1st 2008 at 07:45 am 58
to hunter,
I’m glad you are not, but a lot of people out there are. They approach a marriage like some kind of promotion or a great job offer. It’s natural for people to want to be with someone but why does it always have to end up in a marriage?? I know I am a bit idealistic and believe we should look for love, not marriage, but it’s a fact that people are miserable in 99% marriages that are not based on love, so who wants to be miserable? By the way it’s the same with a job - people don’t mind to suffer if it pays well, I just think it’s sad, because life is too short for all this self-inflicting suffering.
jules Apr 1st 2008 at 09:13 am 59
Collins,
I don’t think you sound the least bit unreasonable. I have paid for second AND first dates in the past.
Some guys were clearly uncomfortable with it, but the ones who had no problem with it were the cool, open-minded ones that took me for who I was and they were the type of guys I wanted to date.
I think people (men & women) get too hung up on who pays and this just creates another unnecessary roadblock.
Collins Apr 1st 2008 at 04:31 pm 60
Victoria wrote: “It’s natural for people to want to be with someone but why does it always have to end up in a marriage?”
Some people still use marriage for religious reasons. Others do it for legal reasons (insurance coverage, joint tax returns, next of kin upon death, etc). Some women do it for the big wedding of which they’ve dreamed ever since their little-girl days when their parents read them to sleep with Cinderella, Snow White & Sleeping Beauty. Some people choose marriage for all of the above reasons.
On the other hand, marriage has left other people cold, including Halle Berry, whose last husband cheated on her. Not long before she met her current beau, Gabriel Aubry, she said, “I want a man who comes home to me because he wants to,” not because marriage vows obligate him to. Berry & Aubry now have a baby together, & they’re just as committed to each other without a legal document as they’d be with one. Similarly, among the not-so-famous, a lady I used to work with was in an informally committed r’ship for 16 years until her guy died of a sudden illness the other year; for 12 of those years, they too raised a child together.
Just like Berry wanted a man, I want a woman who comes home to me because she wants to, with or without that piece of paper. Paradoxically, if you give a person wings, s/he will be less inclined to fly away.