Why Does My Boyfriend Only Want Sex a Few Times A Week?

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08:44 am on Mar 31st 2008 Evan Marc Katz

You might think these are all lame excuses – that true passion transcends time and energy – that real attraction never wanes and that the mere thought of your lover should get you excited. But that’s not true. Not for everybody. In fact, there’s a very crude adage that I heard once upon a time which made a strong impression on me:

“Show me a beautiful woman, and I’ll show you a guy who’s sick of fucking her.”

Ouch.

It takes a lot of work to keep repeated sex with the same partner interesting; a lot of people aren’t up for that kind of work.

I don’t endorse the language, nor do I endorse the sentiment, but the underlying point rings true (for BOTH sexes). It takes a lot of work to keep repeated sex with the same partner interesting; a lot of people aren’t up for that kind of work. This doesn’t mean you should despair – nor does it mean that your boyfriend’s not interested in sex. From this guy’s standpoint – 2 to 3 times a week is a decent sex life. And if that’s not satisfactory, you might need to consider alternative plans.

I wish you the best of luck.

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Tags: dating advice, dating tips, relationship advice, sex, sex advice, sex tips

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101 Responses to “Why Does My Boyfriend Only Want Sex a Few Times A Week?”

Kat Wilder Mar 31st 2008 at 09:45 am 1

Sarah,
Evan bring up good points, but the person you should be asking is your boyfriend, not Evan (sorry, Evan).

Because, if it’s a loving, respectful, honest relationship, you should be able to talk with him about uncomfortable things. And if you can’t, you have a much bigger problem than different sex drives.
Markus Mar 31st 2008 at 12:13 pm 2

EMK, ballsy of you to break that quote out. I thought we got our man-cards taken away from us if we mentioned that. Seriously though, here’s another quote, “you don’t know what you go ’til it’s gone”. I remember the days of turning my ex down for sex because I had a hockey game that night or not getting any because I stayed up instead of going to bed with her. Than everything went to crap and I realized I would’ve killed for it. She’s still one of the hottest women I was ever with and would love to be with her again. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve had great sex with hot women since. I THINK I have learned my lesson and will never take it for granted. However, my lessons are not everyone’s and I can only say what I’m planning on doing.

Bottom line for the letter’s author. Communicate that it’s an issue and dumpsville is an option. That said, baby, you gotta spice it up from time to time.
starthrower68 Mar 31st 2008 at 03:55 pm 3

Well, there’s something you don’t see every day. The gf is upset because the bf won’t “engage” with her enough. Interesting….very interesting….
downtowngal Mar 31st 2008 at 05:27 pm 4

Evan’s right in that knowing both your ages would be helpful. Also, what is his past dating history? Maybe he’s on the shy/slightly nerdy side and hasn’t had a lot of girlfriend history; I dated a guy like that once, said he’s never had so much sex in his life and we did it 3-4x per week.

I disagree that it might be something you’re NOT doing so he’s turned off. What about the rest of your relationship - is he caring and thoughtful? Is he great in every other way except for this? Even if you’ve both settled into the plateau of the relationship, he needs to learn how to make you happy. And you should figure out a way to communicate this. Or make yourself less available.

The bottom line is, if he can’t satisfy your needs it’ll become a bigger issue the longer you’re together. He just might have a lower sex drive, or he’s selfish,
Sarah Mar 31st 2008 at 05:31 pm 5

Wait — I’m confused. Today sex is work? The other day EMK said it was entertainment!
Lance Mar 31st 2008 at 05:58 pm 6

I understand what Sarah is going thru, because I’ve been that guy and had my gf make the same comment. Back before I got into social artistry, having sex 2-3 times per week seemed like a perfectly healthy, reasonable amount considering the length of their relationship. Seriously, does anyone on the board disagree with that? In theory, you could have sex with your partner 7 days per week, but that rarely happens. At first blush, it appears the passion just wanes naturally…

Here’s what I went through. After I hit rock bottom in my relationship life, I did a lot of self-identification. One thing I identified was that I was mediocre in the sack. That was a difficult realization to make because it FELT and LOOKED like I was having great sex with my gf. She even said I was the best, which further reinforced the fallacy. And, who the hell wants to admit that they suck at the dirty deed? Well my friends, mediocre I was. Without getting too detailed, I wasn’t manly enough in the sack and I wasn’t having the pornstar quality sex that my woman craved. I wasn’t fulfilling my role as a man and I wasn’t making her feel like a woman.

So I fixed that. The quality of my sex life increased several fold. So now, if I have sex with my partner only a couple of times in a week, they’re absolutely ridiculous, off-the-wall affairs. I’m screwing like a champion, because I am a champion. And she’s not complaining about anything.

So my question to Sarah is, what is the quality of your sex truly like (not the quantity)? Is your man a sexual master? Do you get off? The quote shouldn’t be that it’s the best sex *he’s* ever had, but is it the best sex *you’ve* ever had? If the answer is no, you both have some work to do.

I would be remiss without offering a bit of advice. For him, read a few books about becoming a better lover. If he’s incapable of improving his bedroom game, you should ditch him. If you really want to be with him and decide to compromise on the sex, then get yourself a guy on the side to fulfill your needs.
smartcookie Mar 31st 2008 at 06:55 pm 7

I had a similar problem, except we weren’t even doing it 2-3X a week and we hadn’t been dating for more than 6 months. I think 2-3X is good if the effort is there in those 2-3X.

In my other relationships, I felt like he wanted it too much (sometimes almost every day), so it was really strange for me to be on the opposite side. He even made comments like-”but we fooled around for 40 minutes!”. Really, people keep track of how much time you spend?????

I don’t know-if things are slowing down before a year to a point where I think there is a problem, that’s a red flag for me (I’m 34). I don’t think it should seem like work by that point-I also think it would be difficult to do it more than 2-3X a week. Who has that kind of time ; )
Sarah Mar 31st 2008 at 09:08 pm 8

I should add that I am not the letter-writing Sarah. But I wish I had this problem. These days, no boyfriend. Alas.
Austen Rodger Apr 1st 2008 at 03:49 am 9

Dear Sarah, Safest tact is always to ask questions and then listen carefully to the answers don’t react badly and you try some other activities
Deathslayer Apr 1st 2008 at 05:24 am 10

Why Does My Boyfriend Only Want Sex a Few Times A Week?
*
He’s got this car here he can waste time with, video games he can play, magazines here to quell his libido if necessary; you’re redundant.

He’s miserable because he has disposable income, gets to do stuff he wants, gets to own the motorcycle the married guy next door isn’t allowed to have. He has altered his paradigm to conform
to the reality of his situation. In other words, he’s found a way to survive.

What this means is that as our hormones slow down, we meet up with women who’ve never wanted it more.
*
Close, but no cigar.

What it means is we KNOW the consequences of getting a woman pregnant and not wanting to deal with a 204,000 plus over 18 years expense, alimony, and child support. Also, ‘Sarah’ is under the delusion that men WANT sex all the time.

Sorry, we DON’T. We kinda HATE being seen as nothing more than human vibrators for a woman…it tends to turn us OFF.

So, I’m guess she considers herself an ‘alpha female’…sorry, but alpha females do ZILCH for the libido.

Also, so you’re ‘attractive’…that means WHAT to a man…you’re nice to look at and that should arouse a man? Sorry, but if your personality is grating, even Viagra won’t make us desire you. Plus COMPARING a man to others you’ve been with before is bringing baggage into a relationship that TURNS MEN OFF.

So he doesn’t want it as much as you do? Good. HE has control and power over himself…SELF-CONTROL.

Can you say the same, ‘Sarah’?

Deathslayer
vino Apr 1st 2008 at 06:22 am 11

Interesting posts. Often one hears men complaining they don’t have sex enough in their relationships.

downtowngal wrote “The bottom line is, if he can’t satisfy your needs it’ll become a bigger issue the longer you’re together. He just might have a lower sex drive, or he’s selfish,”

Not to be snarky - does that same rationale apply when men do not have their needs satisfied?

Communication, people. Sheesh.
BeenThruTheWars Apr 1st 2008 at 08:44 am 12

Sarah, I agree with what’s been said here — even the “crude joke,” as there’s an underlying truth to it. I also know that men detest feeling pressured to have sex, or more sex, or better sex. They particularly detest feeling as though they are being compared unfavorably with other men in this regard (which is why one shouldn’t go on and on about one’s former lovers). There are those who legitimately complain when their women NEVER initiate anything, but I don’t believe that’s the case here.

Is it possible that you are feeling a distancing from your boyfriend in other ways, either subtle or overt, and are responding by being more needy and demanding in terms of wanting “proof” that he is still as into you as he was? Sexual frequency isn’t proof of the strength of a person’s love — which I found out the hard way.

Is your man experiencing money problems, career problems, or anything similar that’s causing him to have a lot on his mind outside the relationship? That, too, can diminish his desire for sex until he works things out and can regain a sense of mastery of his world.

Most relationships will go through one or more cooling off periods during the first year, for a variety of reasons. Sometimes it’s the man’s instinctive reaction to a feeling of “too much intimacy, yikes!” that makes him want to pull away and get back in touch with his independence. That’s part of a natural cycle men go through (even after they are married), and it’s antithetical to the way women tend to operate (craving continual intimacy).

The worst thing a woman can do when she feels her man pulling away is to go chasing after him, making demands and piling on the pressure. It only has the effect of making him want to “stay away” longer, and can wind up alienating him and causing real damage to the relationship. You might want to try pulling back yourself a little. Not in a game-playing sense, but in a “Gee, I’m tired, it’ll be great to get a good night’s sleep, ‘nite, honey” sense. You aren’t withholding sex — if he wants some, fantastic. You are his loving, willing partner. But consider the concept of completely removing any sense of your being the aggressor in the bedroom. Create some space for him to think, “Hmm, she isn’t all over me like usual… ” so that HE can be the one who seeks YOU out. Let him be the man. Let sex be his idea. It’s a powerful strategy when you hit the 6- to 9-month doldrums and well worth a try to see how he responds.

If you completely drop your demands and expectations and passively wait for his overtures for a few weeks… and your sex life drops off even more, or you sense a distinct emotional withdrawal in the affection area as well — then, as others have said, you have bigger issues to deal with than just a disparity in your desire for frequent sex.
Markus Apr 1st 2008 at 08:53 am 13

I hope I never have to read another deathslayer post again.
Steve Apr 1st 2008 at 09:19 am 14

Markus Apr 1st 2008 at 08:53 am 13
I hope I never have to read another deathslayer post again.

What he said.
$Francisco Apr 1st 2008 at 09:33 am 15

For my own clarification they are having sex 2-3 times a week (which is more than the national average) and they just had sex the night before; this is the problem, right??? Or is it?

Sarah said that she has been called attractive and sex had not been an issue with past boyfriends either. She even said that before becoming intimate with her current boyfriend he seemed very interested. So now since she has been turned down for sex (I don’t know if it is the very first time or not) there seems to be a problem.

Is the problem the fact that the myth that men can turn on and off their libido as easily as their Playstation being challenged? Is it that the reason which Sarah’s boyfriend rebuffed her a bit lame (c’mon, can’t you take another shower)? Or is it possible that Sarah may equate either her worth or the viability of a relationship by the frequency of sex?

Whatever it may be, it was still amusing to read that someone felt the at the end of it all, the boyfriend was being selfish. Ah, the advantages of being a man!
vino Apr 1st 2008 at 09:36 am 16

Okay, so deathslayer’s post was, shall we say, less than most cordial.

I think, if you sort through some of the invective and made up facts, that he’s saying Sarah’s boyfriend has other things he can do, other things on his mind, legal concerns re: sex, and issues of power and control re: Sarah that may affect his desire and ability to have sex when Sarah wants it.

I’m making an effort to see what someone is truly saying, even though I may not love the tone or technique. I hope we all do.
Steve Apr 1st 2008 at 11:24 am 17

vino Apr 1st 2008 at 09:36 am 16
Okay, so deathslayer’s post was, shall we say, less than most cordial.
I think, if you sort through some of the invective and made up facts,

Well there is a lesson in dating right there, to bring things back to the topic of this blog. People aren’t going to ignore bitterness and bizarre statements from people they have just met. They certainly aren’t going to agree to go out on a date with them either.

You don’t even have to be as bad as deathslayer to use this form of non-invasive birth control. Having a gripe against an entire gender will work. So will using adolescent language when talking about women or dating. Either will get a person tagged as a loser.
vino Apr 1st 2008 at 11:50 am 18

We may not always love the MANNER or STYLE of posters and their communication. I do think it’s premature to dismiss out of hand all posters who don’t conform to most standards of ‘polite’ discourse.

deathslayer’s post is written in a ’shock and awe’ way. I liken it to a terrorist attack - not conforming to normal rules, destructive, but designed to draw attention and make a point. Other posters have done similar things, male and female, though maybe not so subtle as ds…

Any reader may choose to ignore these kinds of posts. Talk about pro-choice! Evan’s blog is great in that he allows for all viewpoints, mainstream or no. I choose to read ds’s and other similar posts for what they may offer. If nothing else, the anger tells a story in and of itself that is worth considering in this little mating dance where it seems both sexes all too often have 2 left feet & no rhythm.
JerseyGirl Apr 1st 2008 at 01:09 pm 19

Often, when men complain about not getting enough sex from their wives, their wives are usually advised to work harder at giving their partner more sex because of the benefits to both of them. It sounds like this girl’s man needs to put more effort into their sex life because she just isn’t happy. She shouldn’t “settle” for a sex life she isn’t happy with. I think if the situation was reversed, most men would be suggesting ways to the man on how to engage his partner in more sex. Instead of telling him to just settle for what she is willing to give.

Especially if he is looking at porn, and not meeting her needs; this is a huge red flag for any woman. If a man isn’t having sex with their partner because of time spent with porn; this will only build up resentment in a woman.

I conside Evan’s advice unfair. I think if the roles were reversed and the man posting the question was a man, Evan would be suggestion ways for him to engage is partner in more sex. I have never heard anyone, especially another man, suggest to another man to settle for the amount of sex his partner is giving him if he was unhappy with it, the reasoning being because of complacency. Which is what Evan seems to be suggesting to the woman. To settle for whatever her partner gives her even though it does not satisfy her. I would hope most men would want to satasify their partner.
Steve Apr 1st 2008 at 01:56 pm 20

Vino;

Let us know how that philosophy works out for you
Sarah G Apr 1st 2008 at 04:40 pm 21

Maybe Sarah in the post should turn to porn and satisfy herself on the off nights. I mean, it would take care of things, right? I have some girlfriends whose libidos are higher than their guys’ and it is frustrating. And, as some of you have pointed out, people aren’t sympathetic in general to that particular plight on the part of the female. It’s a bummer. But I am a big advocate of women taking all matters sexual into their own hands, with a partner or no. (Especially if not.) I mean, guys don’t sit around waiting for us to give it up — if aren’t getting it and they want it, they go out and get it, or do it themselves, or set up a big howl. So that’s my two cents: go out and get it, do it yourself, or set up a big howl.
Sarah G Apr 1st 2008 at 04:53 pm 22

Re: DeathSlayer — that’s not a real person, is it? It’s like a spoof, I think. I think those posts are hysterical! I just wish that we could see a picture, too, of the superhero outfit. I imagine a black cape, a Darth Vader mask, and a big foam penis. I bet he’s about 17 and ripe for the picking. I wouldn’t mind being a cougar (relatively speaking) for one night, so I’d “settle” for a date with him. Then again, I’m a little hard up these days. Alas.
Sarah G Apr 1st 2008 at 07:25 pm 23

Sorry, DS–didn’t mean to sound insulting about “settling” for you. I realize that that sounded a little insulting. But I still think you are a spoof. Is your name an allusion to something sci-fi-ish?
Deathslayer Apr 1st 2008 at 08:07 pm 24

Sorry, DS–didn’t mean to sound insulting about “settling” for you.
*
Not bothered or insulted at all.

I realize that that sounded a little insulting. But I still think you are a spoof. Is your name an allusion to something sci-fi-ish?
*
Nah, the name actually reminds me to never take things personally and to get the job done, speak the truth and always use logic and common sense.

I imagine a black cape, a Darth Vader mask, and a big foam penis. I bet he’s about 17 and ripe for the picking.
*
Sorry to disappoint, but I’m mid 30’s studying for my COMPTIA A+/Net+ exams and trying to be a student of the BOFH ways…but I’m not a Star Wars Fan. More of a classic samurai fan.

Deathslayer
Deathslayer Apr 1st 2008 at 08:11 pm 25

From a wise older man:

A woman’s aggression

Ever hear the old saying “Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned”?

A guy might get disgruntled and a bit pissed off when a woman he wants to sleep with turns him down, but turn down a woman who wants to have sex with you (for whatever convoluted reasons) and she will absolutely hate your guts.

During my freshman year in college, my Residence Hall Assistant (upperclassman with light admin duties for the floor and the general purpose of helping kids adjust to college life) was a guy who was 6′8″. For part of that year he “dated” or hung out with a woman who was 4′10″. One day I heard terrible crashing sounds coming
from the hallway and poked my head out to see her kicking the $#$% out of his door.

“He’s not there” I said. “YES HE IS” she shouted back at me. She kicked the door a few more times and I said “If he was in there, he would surely come out to see who was trying to kick down his door and why.”

I invited her into my room to sit down and calm down. She was babbling on about how she knew he was in there and was just afraid to come out and face her. Now there is a fascinating concept which shows the lie in all the feminist drivel about Domestic Violence.

At 6′8″, the guy weighed about 250 lbs even though he was skinny as hell. This “little woman” weighed maybe 90 lbs, if that. Yet, she was totally convinced that he was afraid of her. Why? For the same reason that a badger or wolverine can drive a bear many times its size off a kill - pure, raw, unbridled aggression unrestrained by any decency or civil/interpersonal values.

Now, the really interesting part is just why she was so pissed off.

“Do you want to hear the lame-assed excuse he gave me for not sleeping with me?” she asked.

“No.” I responded.

“First of all, I am not the least bit interested in his sex life.
Second, he has a right to his privacy.”

Men apologize to women because if they don’t women will continue to attack them viciously, relentlessly, in any way they can until the guy does apologize. The guy could have batted her away like an annoying pup if he had chosen, but he was restrained by a value system which limited his aggression and the level of his attacks,
while she suffered from no such limitations of civility and decency. Women throughout this culture are given social permission to go as psychotic as they feel like and they know it will be excused by the cultural perception of women’s uncontrollable emotionality.

Look at all the people who jumped to the defense of Andrea Yates
for killing her kids or Clara Harris for killing her husband while his own daughter watched.

Over the years, the most vicious attacks I have endured from women have come as a result of refusing to sleep with them. Flying into a screaming hysterical rage is one of the favorite tactics of women to take men off guard and manipulate their reflexes to throw them into the fight or flight arousal complex. Because men are so socially conditioned that they should “never hit a woman” under any circumstances, the option of fighting is unavailable to them so they flee the emotional battleground by admitting guilt and apologizing.

It is the equivalent of waving the white flag of surrender.

Most of the women I have observed over the years are emotional terrorists. It is so acceptable in this culture that women can proudly wear “Bitch!” t-shirts etc, and also love the saying “if mom isn’t happy, then NOBODY is happy.”

Men apologize because women wear them down with these tactics and most men are worn out enough from trying to make a living that they will give away just about anything for a little peace and quiet when they get home.

“A guy gets up at 7:00 so he can make it to the work battlefield by 8:00, why the hell would he rush home so he can get to that
battlefield by 5:30?”

This is just one of many areas in which women quite successfully play both ends against the middle. They have the cultural fiction behind them that women want relationships more than they want sex, and more than men want relationships. But, they count on the fact that the man actually wants emotional intimacy and closeness more than they do so they can use that as a weapon against men and hold the relationship hostage to their whims -

“you’d better do what I want, or I will ‘break’ the positive feelings between us!”

Men are always going to lose this game of emotional brinkmanship unless and until they learn how to play it and become willing to play it. When a woman says “I want you to leave” or sets your stuff by the door, say “OK” and be outta there. It won’t be 24 hours before she is calling you begging for you to come back and playing all sorts of sweetness and seductive games to try to lure you back within her range.

Deathslayer
vino Apr 1st 2008 at 09:29 pm 26

BTW, I’m waiting for the ladies of the board to accuse Sarah of being an animal or shallow much in the same way men have been on other threads. I’m reminded of the frequent complaint “All guys want is sex”

Shoe’s on the other foot, no?

Or perhaps neither sex is the animal the other paints it as. Perhaps there is *gasp* more in common sometimes.

Perish the thought!
JerseyGirl Apr 1st 2008 at 10:16 pm 27

I love the fact that men are so sexual. What I don’t love is when men in relationships project that sexuality onto other women instead of where it belongs, with their women.
Steve Apr 2nd 2008 at 05:48 am 28

Deathslayer & Vino;

I’m serious when I write that a legitimate piece of advice I can give the both of you is that being bitter toward women or feminists will reduce the number of dates you get. Even if you are slick and never say anything insulting to anyone’s face dwelling on your disappointments will get you into habits that will sabotage your relationships without you even being aware of it most of the time.

There is a lot of unfairness in the dating & mating world ( going both ways ). That will never go away. If you complain about it often enough occasionally you will get someone to admit “yes, that is true”, but the unfairness will never go away.

You will be happier if you look to find a way to be happy while existing in a world with injustice.

If that advice sounds like a bunch of BS to you at least consider going to an internet forum that is set up for the kind of venting you want to do.

Evan’s blog is here to help people get more out of dating.

Your complaints are only tangentially related at the very very best.
vino Apr 2nd 2008 at 07:26 am 29

Who said I was unhappy? Please do not place your projections upon me. In fact, I think I’m being pretty positive about things. Did you even read my last post?

Steve, with all due respect, please do not place YOUR judgments upon me or how YOU think I should act. YOUR characterization of being “bitter towards feminists” is just that: your characterization.

“dwelling on disappointments” - where did I ever say that? Or ds for that matter? I didn’t. Your made-up characterization.

“If you complain about it often enough occasionally you will get someone to admit “yes, that is true”, but the unfairness will never go away.”
Pointing out less-than-altruistic conduct of both sexes (which I do) doesn’t make it go away, but certainly points out where some others may recognize said behaviors and act in their best interests. BTW, that applies equally to both sexes. Getting more out of dating includes looking at questionable behavior of both sexes, no?

So, according to you, ds and I should be good little boys and ‘go along to get along’ on any subject even when it’s not in our best interests? Same thing for other female posters who may disagree with some men? Respectfully, that is unreasonable.

If you do not like what or how anyone else writes, you have a very simple choice - don’t read it. I do not mean this in an unkind way, but please spare me the sanctimony.
vino Apr 2nd 2008 at 07:35 am 30

JerseyGirlApr 1st 2008 at 10:16 pm 27

“I love the fact that men are so sexual. What I don’t love is when men in relationships project that sexuality onto other women instead of where it belongs, with their women.”

There’s the rub, JG. Unless I misread you, you seem to indicate that sexuality in an relationship, and therefore the control over sex, belongs with a woman. Do you see that as a potential problem? Power is best shared by both.

I saw a funny Bill Maher bit about sex regarding mutual fantasies. He said there aren’t any.
“Our (men’s) fantasies offend you (women). Yours (women’s fantasies) bore us (men).”

Give & take - applied to sexuality. Not always easy, but the ideal, no?
Steve Apr 2nd 2008 at 08:20 am 31

Vino ( & Deathslayer);

I’m not judging anyone. My life isn’t perfect and there are parts of it that I am not happy about. In that way I am just like you and everyone else here.

Just having been alive for a while I’ve observed that men who are successful with women tend not invest a lot of time in complaining about them, feminists or anyone else( likewise for women ).

By going on about them, especially in a fora where that is not the topic, you risk giving people the mistaken impression that you are losing out on something in life that is important to you.

I’m not writing this to offend you. I’m an ordinary human being with my gripes and I think he world would be a better place if people could let go of their gripes.

It is easier said then done, but find something that pushes your happiness buttons. Keep your attention focused on that as much as you can rather than festering on people who disappointed you.

You will be amazed at the good things that will just fall into place.
vino Apr 2nd 2008 at 08:33 am 32

“I’m not judging anyone.”

Respectfully, you are. Now that’s been said, let’s move on.

Any thoughts on JG’s post? Or my response?
cinnamon Apr 2nd 2008 at 09:53 am 33

So far, I do not find vino’s comments bitter towards women.
If I could sum up all his posts that I’ve read so far, he is advocating for more open communication in various contexts.

With respect to JG’s post, I read her post as saying that she doesn’t like when men are paying a lot of attention to women other that their own one (she earlier mentioned watching porn, in this contect) and how destructing this can be for the actual relationship.
Steve Apr 2nd 2008 at 10:23 am 34

No I don’t and without any offense meant I am completely unapologetic for anything I have written. I meant every word truthfully and without offense.
vino Apr 2nd 2008 at 10:32 am 35

We have a winner Johnny! - Someone who gets me. Love ya, cinn.

I did misread JG’s post. Thx for pointing it out.
Selena Apr 2nd 2008 at 11:03 am 36

Only 2-3 X a week? Gosh, that was the *norm* in my r’ships after the first month or two when the ‘newness’ settled down. Pretty much stayed that way as well, with whichever person I was with at the time. From what I’ve heard, that frequency is actually higher than average as it is.

I dunno Sarah, maybe you have a really high drive. If you are an every day at least once, kind of woman then you are unlikely to remain very happy in this r’ship. You might be better off finding someone with a drive equal to yours and/or supplementing with a vibrator.

If you mainly think your bf *should* want you more to prove something to you–then you’d be advised to take a look at any insecurites operating here on your part. Both genders dislike being pressured for sex when they really don’t want it, so you might want to take Beenthroughthewars suggestion and back off somewhat and see what happens. You only have 7 mos. in, better to find you are incompatible sexually now, than to be complaining about the same thing 7 yrs. from now.
cinnamon Apr 2nd 2008 at 11:36 am 37

Steve,
I cannot fight the impression that you either didn’t make an effort to read vino’s previous posts, or that you somehow misunderstood them.
Since there is at least one women on this forum who is interested in hearing his views exactly the way they have so far been formulated, please let us move on.
Steve Apr 2nd 2008 at 01:23 pm 38

Cinnamon;

My posts were addressed to both deathslayer and vino.
vino Apr 2nd 2008 at 01:55 pm 39

Sarah G wrote:

“And, as some of you have pointed out, people aren’t sympathetic in general to that particular plight on the part of the female. It’s a bummer. But I am a big advocate of women taking all matters sexual into their own hands, with a partner or no. (Especially if not.) . . .So that’s my two cents: go out and get it, do it yourself, or set up a big howl.”

I agree with the post. It works for guys in the same ‘plight’ too. Don’t get the howl reference though.

Elliot Spitzer, anyone?

OK, bad joke, but a joke nonetheless.
cinnamon Apr 2nd 2008 at 02:11 pm 40

Steve,
I’m happy you mention this, because this is exactly the reason I decided to protect vino. As I see it, in your well intentioned attempt to soften the tone of some posts, you accidentally hit the wrong person. You shot a civilian, so to say.
Pls. read again vino’s post no. 18 in this thread. The attitude he expresses in this post shows in my eyes a lot of maturity, which makes me in turn read his other posts with high interest.
Sarah G Apr 2nd 2008 at 02:30 pm 41

Oh. If you aren’t a spoof, DeathSlayer, then I really am not that into you. And I don’t like Vino, either. Even though I am glad that he agrees with me on the topic of self-pleasure, which has largely gone unexamined on this board. It really is a very good way to take care of yourself. But, granted, I’m a newcomer here and perhaps I’ve missed a previous discussion.

Re: howling — you know. When you aren’t getting what you want and you just go “AH-OOO!!! LISTEN TO ME!!!” Elliott Spitzer didn’t do that. He’s really much sneakier, it seems.

And just for the record — I have fantastic, non-boring sexual fantasies. But I do not share — they are mine and mine alone.
vino Apr 2nd 2008 at 03:07 pm 42

Sarah G:

“I don’t like Vino, either.”

What specifically about me offends you?
Lance Apr 2nd 2008 at 03:34 pm 43

Wow! Everyone is getting their undies all bunched up. I love it! Deathslayer is my new favorite commenter, and by favorite I mean subtle as a a sledgehammer. Do you, good sir, happen to have a blog? I’d love to read further…

For the letter writer, I think it boils down to something as simple as he’s lousy in the sack and she’s not getting off. They probably need to find new partners, or at least discuss the subject.
vino Apr 2nd 2008 at 04:31 pm 44

“Everyone is getting their undies all bunched up.”

No s&*t. Lighten up.
Sarah G Apr 2nd 2008 at 04:50 pm 45

Well, first of all, Vino, I don’t know what your name is about. Is about wine or that eponymous IT platform? Wine is kind of sensual, which is good, but IT platforms are just cold and useful and that’s it. So which are you? Sensual or cold/useful? I do think it’s nice that you always wear your hat when you go out to play (I think it was you who said that the other day), so you get points for that, even though you’re all enraged with the female proclivity to reproduce in unpredictable ways. (See, I’m the kinda female who likes that wild run-with-the-wolves kind of thing, and I’m always ready to let the instinctual have its way with me, but I know that it freaks guys out. You have my sympathies — I can imagine it is overwhelming if you don’t feel it coursing through your blood. It freaks us out, too, truth to tell. Can you imagine having a person growing inside of your body like in “Aliens”??!!) But I have noticed that usually you say mean things and you agree with DeathSlayer. DeathSlayer spoke to me with all those acronyms that I don’t understand (cold, not useful) and sometimes he talks for a really long time. Ya know, he’s just not ready to run with me. It’s all blah-blah-blah-women-men-blah-blah-blah. I think you both protest too much and you’re both just scared. But that’s the right way to be until you’re really sure that you’ve found the one you can adore for a lifetime. Because we are very, very scary. Kisses to you both.
vino Apr 2nd 2008 at 05:11 pm 46

Hmmmm…

Well, if the bottle of 1990 Silverado Limited Reserve Cabernet I had last week is any indication, you can probably guess the source.

“So which are you? Sensual or cold/useful?”

- Both

“even though you’re all enraged with the female proclivity to reproduce in unpredictable ways. . .and I’m always ready to let the instinctual have its way with me, but I know that it freaks guys out”

- Not going to wholly get into that discussion again. Never said I was enraged. That’s your characterization, not what I said at all. Guys are freaked out because YOU have the CHOICE to OBLIGATE him to child support for the next 18-20 years for indulging your instinctual whim. $200-$300k or more for 18 + years of child support is one expensive lay.

“I think you both protest too much and you’re both just scared.”

- Who said I’m protesting? Have you read anything I’ve written in this thread? If you are referring to the procreation discussion - yes. Your whims and control absent my consent over procreation obligating me for 18-21 years is truly frightening. Notice I have no equal right to make you be or not be a parent…

So let me ask again, what specifically have I done to make you dislike me? I don’t see where I’ve been rude, inconsiderate or similarly offensive.
Sarah G Apr 2nd 2008 at 05:47 pm 47

Well, not to me personally, but…ya know, sometimes you just can’t explain it.

I would never obligate a guy unless we were married and had agreed to have a baby together. I’d take my love child and be a good mum to it. No need to introduce emotional mayhem into a child’s life by involving the guy. And I have a great career, so a man’s money doesn’t motivate me. Not looking to “upgrade.”

But this has nothing to do with Sarah the letter writer! I say to her, pleasure yourself (ask him if that’s an OK solution first) and then go for it. He might decide to join the party!
Sarah G Apr 2nd 2008 at 06:18 pm 48

Oh, too — I highly recommend toys and maybe checking out a site like YouPorn for inspiration. Have fun!!!!
vino Apr 2nd 2008 at 07:37 pm 49

Sarah G wrote: “Well, not to me personally, but…ya know, sometimes you just can’t explain it.”

- Nice to see I stir something in you.

Sarah G wrote: “I would never obligate a guy unless we were married and had agreed to have a baby together.”

- That’s great, but I believe you are decidedly in the minority. By a long way.

Good advice for Sarah, BTW. Same goes for you too. Of course, now you can think of me next time you grab the rabbit!
Deathslayer Apr 2nd 2008 at 08:35 pm 50

Deathslayer is my new favorite commenter, and by favorite I mean subtle as a a sledgehammer.
*

Gotta admit, you sir are pretty good with the logic and rapier wit.

Do you, good sir, happen to have a blog? I’d love to read further…
*
Sadly, no. I really need to, but I’ve gotta find something worth writing about.

Oh. If you aren’t a spoof, DeathSlayer, then I really am not that into you.
*
Hmmm…let’s see…

Still need to pay my bills.
Still need to have food clothing and shelter.
Still have to get an education.
Still have to finish watching MEGAS XLR….

ONE woman isn’t into me…one down, 3,799,999,999 left to choose from. I think I’m cool with her not being into me.

To vino…this is for you:

I favor what would be called a “paper abortion”. By this I mean that the father of the child has a say as to whether his wallet can be invaded.

The father should be allowed to sign away all visitation/financial obligation if he so chooses. Women should not be financially rewarded for pushing out unwanted children.
If these rewards were taken away, I would immediately buy stock in all forms of female contraceptives, as their sales would skyrocket.

Time for me to get polically incorrect. I don’t like condoms, period. As a matter of fact, If condoms weren’t around, today’s woman would actually have to engage in monogamy. Because of condoms, men are nothing more than dildos with legs and a wallet. The woman isn’t taking any risks, (disease, pregnancy) so the need for
commitment is gone. Hence, the woman can go from guy to guy until she gets what she wants. Additionally, condoms greatly reduce the sensation for men. Condoms are a 2-way bad deal for guys.

Let me paint you a picture of my world if I were king for a day.

To start with, I would remove the financial rewards that women receive for their decision making. Child support would be VOLUNTARY, not mandatory. Women want to push junior out of the ol’ birth canal?
Fine. You ladies can pay. For the guy it can be optional. My reasoning is simple. Women have the last say as to whether or not that kid is born. If he doesn’t want the kid and she does, he can’t do anything about it.
Conversely, and pay attention because this is the key element of my argument, IF THE GUY WANTS THE BABY AND THE WOMAN DOESN’T, SHE CAN HAVE AN ABORTION AND THE GUY CAN’T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. You can’t have it both ways, ladies. If mandatory child support was revoked abortions and the sale of birth control pills would skyrocket.

Women have babies to gain access to our wallets. It’s time we as men band together and deny these prostitutes that access.

One of the modern expressions of grrllll power is the single mom, by artificial insemination. How many guys do you think are gonna
rush to jack off into a turkey baster, beaker, etc. if they know that they will get jammed up for child support?

Classic female myopia.

These women are in such a rush to grab benjamins from our wallets, THAT IT IS DRIVING MEN AWAY IN DROVES!!

Not only will we not marry them, (as evidenced by the popular phrase “marriage strike”), we won’t let them move in with us, and we won’t date them. Now, due to their greed, men won’t even participate in fulfilling the “needs” of motherhood without the father.

Deathslayer
Deathslayer Apr 2nd 2008 at 08:51 pm 51

For those who wonder if I am happy or worry about my success with women, I simply say this:

Every day I go to bed single I consider a victory.

Every time I can go to the computer store and buy parts and talk to the cute lady tech working the store instead of a woman who considers me a Captain Free Therapist or just a ‘nice guy’, I consider a victory.

Every time I go to the swap meet and drag home something old, dirty, and parts filled that I need for a project or that will become a project without interference from some shrill harpy, I consider a victory.

The walls of my domicile are covered in trophies that I’ve picked up in my life, the fact I can put whatever I want on the wall, is a victory.

Every time I can go out on Saturday night, drink, stay up until 4am, and do whatever I want without worrying about pissing off the Slavedriver, is a victory.

Every time I finish a long job, ride a bus for an hour, look at the cash in my hand I can spend ANY FREAKING way I want without having to ask what someone else wants or spend money on dinners just to keep HER happy, is a victory.

The fact I don’t have to make nice with her stupid friends, is a victory.

My bank account? Another victory.

Having all my bills paid, A+ credit, no need for credit cards, debt free and having married men wish they had my life? Another victory.

My investment portfolio? Another victory.

Freedom? THE ULTIMATE VICTORY.

Live your life as if everything you do is a small victory and the bigger victories will follow.

Deathslayer
Selena Apr 3rd 2008 at 08:19 am 52

Have to say Deathslayer, I stopped reading most of your posts, but did read #51 and enjoyed it. I might save that one to remind myself how many GREAT things there are about being single. Thanks!
Steve Apr 3rd 2008 at 09:09 am 53

Selena, you are so right about being grateful for being single. You could be dating someone similar to deathslayer :).
vino Apr 3rd 2008 at 09:10 am 54

ds,

While I share more in common with your perspective than not, particularly whys of the matter, I do think we’re a bit off-topic at the moment.

That said, I concur wholeheartedly with your #51. To which I’d add:

The fact I don’t have to ever hear, “You love your dog more than me!” is a victory.
Lance Apr 3rd 2008 at 09:22 am 55

@Deathslayer: I’m running a contest on my blog…I’d like to invite you to participate. I mean that seriously. I’m looking for fresh, new, or unusual perspetives, and you sir qualify in spades. You can leave your take in the comments section.

Cheers,
L
Eda Apr 3rd 2008 at 09:57 am 56

Vino and Deathslayer,

Given that you enjoy being single and don’t appear to be interested in marriage, a LTR or dating, why do you spend time on this website? My question is genuine as I really am trying to understand what motivates you to be here. What are you getting out of it and what, if anything, do you want women to take away — especially the women who haven’t done anything of the things that you dislike so.
Selena Apr 3rd 2008 at 10:02 am 57

Continuing with the single victory theme:

Being able to cook whatever I want for dinner, beyond meat and potatoes- a victory!

Being able to go to ANY restaurant, including those that serve *weird* food ( ie: mexican, Thai,) including those that don’t have steak and potatoes on the menu- another victory.

Not being wheedled, needled, and barked at for sex all day, just because HE can’t get off when we do it. Whew! victory.

Coming home to find there is actually still beer in the fridge, (since he wasn’t there to drink it all up the night before)-slurp! victory.

Not having to buy HIM beer, or cigarettes. victory.

Being able to spend money on whatever I want, even if it is yet another pair of shoes, another knickknack, or a cheesecake-victory!

NOT having to be cajoled into helping him buy yet another electronic toy, sporting equipment, or something for his car–victory.

Not having to listen to how I’d have a great body if I only exercised more (Exercise? Better look at yourself in the mirror, buddy)-victory.

Not having to hear him tell the same lame stories from his college days, over and over and over, ever again–victory.

Going wherever I want, whenever I want, instead of where HE wants to go! -Victory.

Not having to listen to the nagging, whining, complaining, sniping, snarky little comments, because he’s either bored or in a bad mood–Major Victory!

Boy that was fun to write. I LOVE being single today!
vino Apr 3rd 2008 at 10:40 am 58

Eda wrote: “Given that you enjoy being single and don’t appear to be interested in marriage, a LTR or dating, why do you spend time on this website? My question is genuine as I really am trying to understand what motivates you to be here. What are you getting out of it and what, if anything, do you want women to take away — especially the women who haven’t done anything of the things that you dislike so.”

No, your question isn’t genuine. you seek to make the focus of us personally rather than discuss why Sarah’s boyfriend doesn’t want as much sex. If you read carefully, I seek to get the thread back on subject at every turn.

I’ll answer anyway.

- To YOU it’s a given we are not interested in dating, a LTR or marriage. FYI - I don’t know ds or speak for him.

- Perhaps we see marriage as anachronistic and without benefit to us. Perhaps not.

- Perhaps we seek information for daily interactions with women. Perhaps not.

The answer is simple. If you don’t like what I or ds writes, don’t read it. Just as if you turned the tv to a different channel. I thought various viewpoints are welcome. Or just the ones you like?

And Selena,

“Not being wheedled, needled, and barked at for sex all day, just because HE can’t get off when we do it. Whew! victory.”

What?!? He doesn’t get off in the old 2 minute bump-and-snore? I thought that’s why it was 2 min…
Deathslayer Apr 3rd 2008 at 11:26 am 59

@Deathslayer: I’m running a contest on my blog…I’d like to invite you to participate. I mean that seriously. I’m looking for fresh, new, or unusual perspetives, and you sir qualify in spades. You can leave your take in the comments section.

*
Well, then, I’ll have to check it out and join the party.

You could be dating someone similar to deathslayer :).
*
I DO love compliments. I AM quite the catch…chicks dig me.

What are you getting out of it and what, if anything, do you want women to take away — especially the women who haven’t done anything of the things that you dislike so.
*
Simple.

I’d really like women to answer three main questions:

1) How does marriage and relationships benefit MEN these days?
2) What is the difference between dating and escorting and marriage and prostitution?
3) How many women actually know what chivalry REALLY means and why do they confuse this with manners, especially if they are on the receiving and and men on the giving end?

Deathslayer
Deathslayer Apr 3rd 2008 at 11:35 am 60

As for the original topic…it kinda reminds me of the old joke where a man goes to visit a prostitute.

The usual things occur and she looks at him and says…

‘Who do you plan on pleasing with that little thing?’

The man replies ‘Me’.

So, if she is hypersexual, it really has nothing to do with the man, it’s all her.

As THE RULES say, when a woman orgasms, it has nothing to do with what a man is doing, it’s all in her head. Think about it.

If this same guy went to another woman and wanted sex 2-3 times a week, how many women would say he wants sex WAY too much?

He’s doing the same thing he’s been doing, but how many women would say he’s not giving her enough sex?

As for Sarah, if she chooses to stay with the guy, he probably has some other qualities that make her want to stay. However, if the worst thing she can complain about is his desire for sex is less than hers, then he probably should let her go find a man obsessed with getting sex and nothing else.

I kinda see some selfishness in her post, to be quite honest. She seems to be complaining about HER needs rather than THEIR needs. I may seem off, but isn’t sex SUPPOSED to be the physical expression of LOVE between two people who care about each other? Why then does it seem that Sarah has more lust than love?

Deathslayer
Eda Apr 3rd 2008 at 12:07 pm 61

Vino,

Per your request, I will no longer direct any more personal questions to you. However, I must state that the question from my previous post was very genuine. One of the reasons I visit this site is because I do like to hear the male perspective — although sometimes because it is so foreign to my own that it is hard for me to understand, and many times, it makes me very said that men and women have such animosity toward each other.

All of the information and facts shared by contributors to this blog are in fact shaped by our personal experiences even if we are discussing situations and issues that have not happened to us personally. By asking you a direct question about your personal reasons for coming to this site, it was not my intent to offend you. I thought perhaps by knowing a little more about your motivations, I could better understand and perhaps even appreciate your observations. I was really, truly trying to understand where you are coming from. Nothing more. Nothing less. Sometimes people really do mean what they say and say what they mean.
vino Apr 3rd 2008 at 12:36 pm 62

Eda, just to be clear. I loathe those types of questions in this forum. In answering them, I simply give people personal information to make personal attacks upon me here and in other threads. Evan’s had to chide many ladies from baseless personal attacks in 3 separate threads within the last month.

Why on earth would I do that? Stick to the subject matter at hand. Simpler for all involved.
Eda Apr 3rd 2008 at 12:40 pm 63

1) How does marriage and relationships benefit MEN these days?
2) What is the difference between dating and escorting and marriage and prostitution?
3) How many women actually know what chivalry REALLY means and why do they confuse this with manners, especially if they are on the receiving and and men on the giving end?

DeathSlayer,

Here are my answers to your questions:

1. I don’t think marriage benefits either gender. I have no desire to get married for many of the same reasons that you outlined.

2. If you believe that in those four situations women only bring sex and men only bring money to the table, then there is very little difference — except that prostitution is illegal in most states. The interesting thing I have asked male friends on those occasions when all the want is sex from a woman, why don’t they just go to prostitutes/escorts. Aside from it being illegal, they all say they don’t want to pay for it, but it appears that a good number of men think they are paying for it anyway. So, if that’s the case, why not pay for it from a woman who is not going to tell you no and is not going to get attached to you?

Now, if you believe that both parties bring more — a lot more, then they are quite different. Both men and women have mentioned that they want someone to nurture them and care for them to be a good friend and a lover and to be the number one priority in their SO’s life. I don’t think escorts or prostitutes do those things or exhibit those sentiments on a routine basis for their most of their customers….notice for fear of being called out, I am not ruling out the possibility that some of them might fulfill those needs for some of their clients.

3. For fear that I might not really know what it is, I looked it up in the dictionary and for modern days — not days of the knights — it is defined as courteous behavior, especially that of a man toward women.
I know what that means and what it looks like. I personally try to treat the men I date with the respect, kindness, friendliness with which I want to be treated. Perhaps you have a different definition.
sarah g Apr 3rd 2008 at 01:12 pm 64

deathslayer — you ride a bus and yet you are not 17. that explains a lot.
Selena Apr 3rd 2008 at 01:27 pm 65

1) How does marriage and relationships benefit MEN these days?
2) What is the difference between dating and escorting and marriage and prostitution?
3) How many women actually know what chivalry REALLY means and why do they confuse this with manners, especially if they are on the receiving and and men on the giving end?

1. Benefits of marriage to men (and women): hmm, survivorship benefit rights in terms of social security, military benefits, pensions? Health insurance discounts? The right to make health care decisions for an incapacitated partner? You know, those other things gays are fighting for the right to marry?

I’d venture many people marry as a symbolic declaration of how they feel themselves to be partners in life rather than sit around thinking “How will marriage BENEFIT me?”

2. Escorting and prostitution are premised on non-emotional attatchment. Dating and marriage are predicated on the idea (hopefully anyway) of emotional attatchment.

3. Chilvary. Isn’t that where the man throws his overcoat over a puddle, so a woman can walk over it without getting the hem of her dress wet? Where he picks up the hankerchief she dropped? Where he beats up the drunk who accosted her in the public house?

To me chilvary would be kindness with flair! See also Gallant.
vino Apr 3rd 2008 at 02:18 pm 66

Some choice quotes from various threads…

“but I guess I’m a woman who will NEVER understand a man’s SEXFIRSTSEXFIRSTSEXFIRST prioritization of sex over just about anything, including death.

(And I know it’s a “guy thing” because my gay male friends say the exact same thing.)”

“I know — because you all tell us ad infinitum, ad nauseum — that men struggle with the endless urge of the biological sex drive.”

“XXX said: “Men frequently want to “Take It Slow” and “See What Happens” as well. “They just tend to want to do it AFTER the couple has had sex.”

LOL! That’s so true!”

“I dont like the sound of these posts at all. Just horny men trying to justify pressuring a woman to have sex.”

“Hello?!? NEWSFLASH - Women are designed to take it slow. We’re told that guys only want sex, and if you give in too soon he won’t respect you.”

““as one dating expert was quoted as saying [sic], “nobody ever said, ‘gosh, I wish I’d slept with him sooner’”.”

“Especially that nowadays, the world’s getting doomer and almost all guys are just after sex without emotion. ”

“My problem is, the men I meet make it clear up front that they’re just in it for the sex.”

Food for thought…
vino Apr 3rd 2008 at 02:36 pm 67

Selena’s answers:

“1. Benefits of marriage to men (and women): hmm, survivorship benefit . . . the right to marry?”

Selena, I have to say I disagree. Those are sorry reasons indeed, to give someone 1/2 of your income and belongings. As an FYI - even gay couples can do Powers of Attorney for Healthcare & Asset Management, Living Wills,Wills, trusts, and the like without marriage. Those are silly reasons. Many states and companies have some type of domestic partner laws re: health insurance access. Marriage has nothing to do with beneficiaries of pensions and retirement plans. You needn’t be married for those benefits.

But the point is that the all of the reasons are to give the lower earner something by way of monetary benefit. Why not be a responsible adult and not expect someone else to pay for it?

Sorry, but those are crappy reasons to give someone 1/2 your property and earnings.

“2. Escorting and prostitution are premised on non-emotional attatchment. Dating and marriage are predicated on the idea (hopefully anyway) of emotional attatchment.”

No, they’re premised on the idea of having some sexual needs met. Then leaving. See Eda’s response.

“3. Chilvary. . . . be kindness with flair! See also Gallant.”

This is one of those loaded words or phrases many (not all) women use in dating. See also emotionally available, purpose of sex, what love is….all of them with a different definition for every woman. That’s the problem. See purpose of sex in another thread.

Most men’s experience is that chivalry means “give me” to a woman. Give me deference by opening a door. Give me deference by picking me up. Give me deference by paying for everything, even if I earn the same or more than you. Especially so. Treat the woman better than you are yourself being treated. Problem is that women give precious little in return more often than not.
Selena Apr 3rd 2008 at 03:31 pm 68

Oh Vino,
So you really have absolutely no appreciation of lighthearted flippancy do you? Ah well. So much for this blog being fun to read–it’s getting pretty dismal around here.
vino Apr 3rd 2008 at 03:57 pm 69

Point taken. See #68 above.

Multitasking has drawbacks…
Deathslayer Apr 4th 2008 at 05:36 am 70

deathslayer — you ride a bus and yet you are not 17. that explains a lot.
*
Sure it’s called parking my car at the train station, taking the bus into the city to save on the hassle of parking spaces and gas money, plus the company doesn’t mind that I do (travel voucher and rewards from the city) and it gives me a great opportunity to get some reading done.

So, I get to use my time wisely, save money, less stress and actually better for the environment. Sorry, Sarah, that shaming tactic didn’t work either.

Eda.
1) I agree with your first answer…these days marriage really has zero benefit except for the governments and legal professions.

2) More men FEEL they are already paying for HER affection, time and interest by doing all those things for her, and why don’t they go out for prostitutes?

Simple. The women are seen as victims even though they also commit a crime, they will just go back out and do it again, and SOCIETY looks at such men as cowards and weaklings yet gives the women a pat on the hand for the most part.

BTW, for the record, more and more women are turning to prostitution and stripping to pay for college. So men, remember that cute 21 year old you called up? Just take pride you’e paying her college tab.

3) I must say that’s great to hear. Mind telling what you do to show a man your chivalry towards him?

Deathslayer
Deathslayer Apr 4th 2008 at 05:48 am 71

Chivalry originated among the noble classes, and as such was
inapplicable to commoners, in the first place. A peasant, serf, yeoman farmer, and such could be chivalrous no more than a fish could be ridden into battle. It is like the term “vassal.”

If I claimed someone as my vassal, the modern reader would assume I meant an inferior, my lackey; in actuality I could not have a vassal/leige agreement with anyone who was NOT
my equal. Chivalry similarly was practiced strictly among the noble classes. The concept of “chivalry” from a noble to a commoner would be met with blank and uncomprehending stares by someone of the age.

Exhibiting courtesy towards an inferior? Whatever for? While true, peasants were the work force and by and large you didn’t gratuitously mistreat them any more than you would mistreat your draft horse, honorable behavior was not exhibited towards them because they were not honorable people.

Chivalry is one of those protocols. Originally it was strictly rules
of war and engagement. It evolved to incoporate a code duello, and finally as a code of interaction that enabled it, among other things, to be clear whether one was insulted or not. Originally, I treated your wives and daughters in a chivalrous manner so as not to give offense to YOU. There were rules on the kissing of hands, for instance - to an intimate, it might be a lingering kiss, to the queen I would place my forehead on her hand.
Either way, so long as I abided by the code of Chivalry, I was considered courteous, and you had no grounds to take offense.

Our forebears well understood that men and women not only spoke
differently, but thought differently, so chivalry came to include rules for interaction between the sexes. It was dishonorable to fight a woman - they had no hope of winning. Thus, madam, you are obliged to not take advantage of this and behave in a manner that challenges me. Since I speak gently to you, you do so with me. I marry you and provide you with security. I don’t diddle other women, because such might result in you having to share the
maintainance which is yours - you bear my children and mine alone so I’m not footing the bill for another man’s issue. The little dance of “courtly love” were means of men and women communicating intents and interest to each other both discretely and in no uncertain terms. The list goes on.
Deathslayer Apr 4th 2008 at 06:08 am 72

Nowadays chivalry has become one sided. Not only do women feel free to challenge me, I’m expected to give them a five step head start and carry a seventy-five pound pack to “make it fair.”

I speak gently to them, and they get to berate me like a fishwife.
I hold the door, and it’s their due.
I merit no thanks - why? Because I’m a peasant, as a male.

I’m obligated to them, but they are under no obligation in return.

So, speaking in modern terms, we can only arrive at one conclusion - chivalry has been perverted into becoming strictly a regulation of male behavior, of obligating men to behave towards women in a certain fashion, with no commeasurate obligation
of a woman to courtesy beyond what she deigns to give.

So, what does this have to do with the OP ‘Sarah’?

Is her man not practicing chivalry? Is he not respecting her? Does he not desire her for than her love muffin and his access to it? Does he want to rut with her like she is just a piece of property?
If not, then what really is her complaint?

He is respecting her and she doesn’t seem to appreciate it. Does that sound familiar?

Think about it…if the guy REALLY wanted to, he could’ve verbally attacked her, assaulted her-and yes, just by pushing her away he set himself up for a visit from the men in blue for ‘domestic violence’– or went and got her a vibrator or a cat to satisfy her libido.

Yes, I said a cat to satisfy her libido. I’ll post that link if anyone wants it…

Instead, he, like majority of men, respected her and made HER feel better and she is feeling that something is wrong with HIM for not wanting her like ALL THE OTHER MEN. So, ask yourself…is she being a gentlewoman or a noble who feels nothing for the man, which chivalry seems to encourage in BOTH parties?

Deathslayer
cinnamon Apr 4th 2008 at 08:24 am 73

Re # 66
I read these quotes are expression of many women holding the very negative stereotype of men as kind of sex-fixated animals. If you approach someone with a negative stereotype in your head created beforehand, your perception of their behavior is filtered through this stereotype and they have no chance in consequence, or they constantly have to prove they are innocent.

The good old principle says you are innocent before it has been proven that you are guilty.
vino Apr 4th 2008 at 09:02 am 74

While I don’t disagree with cinn’s post, I’d add that if I placed my hand on a stove 10 times & 7 of those times it was hot & I burned my hand, it’d be pretty rational to conclude the stove is hot more often than not (and dangerous). Same principle applies.

“The good old principle says you are innocent before it has been proven that you are guilty.”
- Only applies in a court of law, actually.
BeenThruTheWars Apr 4th 2008 at 09:04 am 75

I am deeply saddened, reading all this intense cynicism about marriage… particularly on a dating site.

I’ve been in a mediocre 10-year marriage before… I’ve been single and LOVED it at times… I’ve been single and HATED it at times… now I am in a second marriage at midlife with a great guy who is as perfect for me as I am for him (though neither of us is perfect, far from it). I am the happiest I’ve ever been in my life because I have finally found a man with whom I can be my whole self, all the time, without editing, and it’s not only okay, he loves me for it! And it’s a two-way street in that regard.

Interestingly, he and I, after two plus years of marriage, both find ourselves reverting back to our old loves from childhood. I used to love bowling when I was a kid and hadn’t made time for a league in over twenty years. He loves bowling with me, we are both taking lessons, we are in multiple leagues and practice together, it’s become a true shared interest for us both, and best of all I’m once again doing something I love that I thought I had left behind forever, because I hadn’t had anyone in my life who said, “Groovy, let’s go bowling!” Similarly, he pushed hobbies like woodworking and photography aside for years because he was “supposed to” focus on other things, like his career and being a carefree bachelor; but I actively encourage him to pursue whatever interests him, and he’s having a blast finding new pastimes that give him joy. More power to him! More power to US, because we are both married and committed to another person who supports our desire to become even MORE of who we are over time.

I am 100% whole on my own; he is 100% whole on his own. Together, we are a 1,000% dynamo. There is nothing we feel we can’t get through or conquer as a team (and yes, there have been challenges, it hasn’t all been cake and ice cream). If you haven’t experienced this kind of love and unity, it’s hard to describe, but not the least bit hard to recommend holding out for, for those who want it. This is the relationship and the life I always dreamed about and envisioned. They do exist! Honest.

That is what a happy marriage to the right person is all about. And for the record, I completely understand and can relate to the whole “bitterness” trip, and equating marriage with disastrous financial and personal consequences. After my divorce, I fell into a shitty relationship for seven plus years with a verbally abusive sex addict (and closet case to boot) alcoholic. It turned me into a raging codependent (fortunately, just with that person) which took me years to heal from. Fortunately I did, and the “universe” rewarded me with my wonderful, sweet husband (though not without a few tough “final exams” first). I easily could have just wallowed in my bitterness and anger and pain after I finally found the inner strength to give Mr. Abuser Guy the boot for good. I could have said, “All men suck, they all cheat on you and use you and make you feel about an inch tall then wipe their feet on you, and this is supposed to be what dating leads to? No thanks! Screw that, I’ll get a cat.” But I chose, instead, to pick myself up, dust myself off, actively do the hard work of getting my head back on straight… found myself drawn to talented, positive, encouraging people like Evan, who helped me write an online dating profile that revealed the real “me” — and within weeks of it going online, I met my now-husband. (Thanks again, Evan! I am grateful for your help every day.)

I’m not bashing anyone for their commentary. There is room for everyone’s views (although I tend to enjoy the threads where people stay on topic a lot more than the threads where people wander off into completely unrelated tangents and start attacking each other… ) It’s great to have a forum with both men and women taking an active role.

I just wanted my voice to be heard in this, too, for those people who are reading this far into a dating blog in hopes of one day securing for themselves what I have found, despite all the many mistakes they have made through the years. Marriage to the right person, for the right reasons, when both people enthusiastically want that level of commitment, is absolutely fantastic!!!!!! I wouldn’t trade my lifestyle right now for anything. My life is infinitely richer with my husband in it than it ever was before. And he tells me with love in his eyes that he feels the same way and is equally content and happy and fulfilled. I feel completely known by him, and he feels completely known by me, we both feel loved and accepted and understood despite having our flaws and foibles right out there on the table in full view. This marriage is as close as I’ve ever come to having a spiritual component in my life, because I relearn what gratitude is on a daily basis.

There. I said it. Marriage rocks!! May the backlash begin.
vino Apr 4th 2008 at 09:37 am 76

I’m playing devil’s advocate in #74.

Actually I think this one is telling:
“Hello?!? NEWSFLASH - Women are designed to take it slow. We’re told that guys only want sex, and if you give in too soon he won’t respect you.”

I think women are told from the time they are little girls that ‘guys only want sex’ and become conditioned to believe this.

Any comments on that little brainwashing technique?
cinnamon Apr 4th 2008 at 10:16 am 77

to vino,
I agree, but this strategy resembles gambling to me. When I burn my hand a few times, I try to figure out how to find out if the stove is turned on…

Cheer, up. This thread has gotten so negative…
Selena Apr 4th 2008 at 12:07 pm 78

Vino,
I don’t know that little girls are brainwashed to think guys only want sex. Rather that is a conclusion *some* young women may come to by thinking having sex establishes a relationship. When they find out the young man they slept with did not make the same assumption they are disappointed. To use your hand on the hot stove analogy, if this happens to a young woman enough times, she might well think “Guys only want sex”.

Guys like sex. So do women. But the error is thinking sex automatically=relationship when it doesn’t necessarily. Something that is learned often through repeated “Just Not That Into You” experiences. Don’t want the kind of guys who are only into sex? Might just want to establish a relationship with one first, as opposed to taking a different one home from clubbing every week-end. Just a thought.
cinnamon Apr 4th 2008 at 12:20 pm 79

re: #76

“I think women are told from the time they are little girls that ‘guys only want sex’ and become conditioned to believe this.”

Personally, I was told sex is a part of a relationship and I became conditioned to believe this. But I can only talk for myself…
vino Apr 4th 2008 at 01:03 pm 80

Selena wrote: “I don’t know that little girls are brainwashed to think guys only want sex. Rather that is a conclusion *some* young women may come to by thinking having sex establishes a relationship. When they find out the young man they slept with did not make the same assumption they are disappointed. To use your hand on the hot stove analogy, if this happens to a young woman enough times, she might well think “Guys only want sex”.

I don’t know, Selena. What I’m getting at, and remember this from my wobegone days in early teens, is that girls age 12+ repeated this pretty often. They had to learn it from somewhere prior to your words of “Rather that is a conclusion . . . assumption they are disappointed.”

I’m getting at what they’re told prior to becoming sexually active.
Selena Apr 4th 2008 at 01:57 pm 81

Well Vino,
I wasn’t told that. My conditioning was the same as Cinnamon’s–that sex was a part of a caring relationship.
cinnamon Apr 4th 2008 at 02:25 pm 82

I guess we might try to agree that people, both men and women, may bring variuos sets of values all depending on how and where they were brought up (which are worth investigating early on…)

vino, a kiss to you from a caring woman
vino Apr 4th 2008 at 02:34 pm 83

That’s great. I don’t meant that in a patronizing way. My questi