I disagree that either gender should have to say it first. Actually, at the beginning of a relationship, no one is “supposed” to take an initiative based simply on their gender.
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m wrote:
“And for the most part, we have to do that sitting and waiting because doing ANYTHING ELSE spooks you all and then you run off like scared rabbits.”

Quite a generalization/stereotype here. Things like this really depend on the individual person.
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downtowngal wrote:
“Steve, a woman’s ‘job’ is to be happy and make the guy feel like he’s #1; a man’s job is to make the woman happy.”

It’s a couple’s job to make each other happy. And no, not every guy is out to have his ego boosted — just as I wouldn’t imagine the same is true in general for women. I’m surprised that some people still cling to such outdated values, or feel that their personal experience applies to everyone.

Please remeber that men in our society are often told weather it be direct or not that showing emotion is a no no. We are expected to be the “strong silent type” the men you are dating are lucky enough to have a woman that can help them break down these barriers (slowly slowly or he will run). Can you imagine how difficult it can be with two guys?

I think alot of straight people simply take for granted what society will allow you to do with no fear of reproach. I cannot hold my partners hand or show affection in public - becuase he is not all the way out (as a teacher in an all boys school this could mean the end of his carrer).

LOL!

m…., I like what you had to say. The job analogy was a good one. It seems that both sexes have a dirty end of the stick in dealing with the mating game. I remember reading a Ray Bradbury story as a kid, “Frost & Fire” where people were born, matured, had their life, grew old and died within 7 days. They would just look at someone and knew if that person was destined to be their mate, friend, enemy etc. That sure would be convenient for dating and avoiding the battle of the sexes, wouldn’t it?

downtowngal Dec 17th 2007 at 07:07 pm 17
Steve, a woman’s ‘job’ is to be happy and make the guy feel like he’s #1; a man’s job is to make the woman happy.

Downtown Gal;

Just to be clear, I did not ask that question, but I liked your answer anyway. If the greeting card industry can create/promote Valentine’s Day into what is, maybe they can use their power to create a once a year “Christmas Time Truce” for the battle of the sexes, especially for singles. Just go out, meet someone, they don’t you BS, you don’t give them BS, everyone just enjoys everyone else’s company.

Okay, time to get off of the crack and get back to work

Women are a bit more likely these days to do some of the “firsts” in dating, but many of us are hesitatant out of fear of pushing the guy away.

You could also say “our job” is to look as good as possible. We tend to spend alot more $$ than men on things like clothes, shoes, accessories, hair, make-up, manicures, pedicures, jewelry because if we don’t, we are perceived as plain, uncaring about our appearance, or downright slovenly.

Weight is another one of our jobs. Maintaining a slender body requires a good bit of deprivation and often more exercise than we would prefer to do. It’s alot easier to be comfortably round, but again so many men view that as plain, uncaring about our apearance, or downright slovenly.

As indicated earlier, when a woman makes the first move, many guys view this as a turnoff. Guys like to feel as if they’re in control. Say all you want but if a woman tries too hard in the beginning or is too forward it’s not going to work.

You ask, in short, whether it’s “always up to the man” to take steps to move a relationship forward.

It sounds a bit like you’re angry and resentful because you feel that men are doing all the work.

However, despite time pressures (biological clock, you all — men — describing over-21 women as “old hags”, blah blah) in our current society that women face that men don’t, women are shoved JUST AS HARD into the “Don’t Act” box as men are into the “Must Act” box.

Women have to SIT and WAIT for men to take risks — all the while taking the risk — in the face of the time pressures stated above — that you WON’T take the risk to invest effort in relationships with us.

And for the most part, we have to do that sitting and waiting because doing ANYTHING ELSE spooks you all and then you run off like scared rabbits.

And then we’ve wasted all that time in a relationship with you and have to start over with someone else.

Sitting and waiting, when you’d rather take action to move something along, is just a different kind of effort.

(Remember when you were waiting for the offer for your current job, and you wished they’d hurry up and get on with it, and you wanted to call them up 70 times and tell them so, but you knew then they’d perceive you as desperate and withhold or withdraw the offer, so you sat on your hands and waited but you gritted your teeth the whole time???)

Since men and women are in fact different, we have different kinds of pressures on us when it comes to forming relationships.

But trust me, it’s JUST as hard.